Vanisource - User contributions [en]

MediaWiki:Monobook.js

2017-06-13T06:25:21Z

ArnabS:

User:ArnabS

2017-06-13T06:19:50Z

ArnabS:

<mp3player>File:731111SB-DELHI ND 01.mp3</mp3player>

<div class="purportverse">
jñāna-yajñena cāpy anye
yajanto mām upāsate
ekatvena pṛthaktvena
bahudhā viśvato-mukham
[[BG 9.15]]
</div>

Arnab can be found [[Vanipedia:User:Arnabs|here]]

edit

[[File:KA2 052.jpg|link=|108px]]

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/Nectar+Drops/760825R1-HYDERABAD_ND_01.MP3</mp3player>

Category:Lokanatha 02 - Letters

2014-08-11T09:06:13Z

ArnabS:

[[Category:Letters to Initiated Disciples]]
[[Category:Letters from Srila Prabhupada - by person]]
[[Category:Letters to Appointed Leaders]]

Category:Lokanatha 02 - Letters

2014-08-11T09:03:51Z

ArnabS: Created page with "Category:Letters to Initiated Disciples Category:Letters from Srila Prabhupada - by person"

[[Category:Letters to Initiated Disciples]]
[[Category:Letters from Srila Prabhupada - by person]]

Category:Lokanatha 01 - Letters

2014-08-11T09:02:16Z

ArnabS: Created page with " Category:Letters to Initiated Disciples Category:Letters from Srila Prabhupada - by person"

[[Category:Letters to Initiated Disciples]]
[[Category:Letters from Srila Prabhupada - by person]]

MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning2

2014-01-07T19:20:47Z

ArnabS: Created page with "Please note that all contributions to {{SITENAME}} may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do ..."

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2013-12-19T17:27:58Z

ArnabS:

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2013-12-19T17:24:41Z

ArnabS: Created page with 'Please note that all contributions to {{SITENAME}} are considered to be released under the $2 (see Copyright for details). If you do not want your writing to be edited mercil…'

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MediaWiki:Sitenotice

2013-12-05T15:00:31Z

ArnabS: Created page with '<div align=center> <big>'''We have been building Śrīla Prabhupāda's free online encyclopedia for 7 years.</big> Still a work in progress, it is already an unparalleled r…'

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Category:Conversations with People from Social Groups

2013-12-03T14:50:41Z

ArnabS: Created page with 'Category:Conversations - by person Category:List of Umbrella Categories'

[[Category:Conversations - by person]]
[[Category:List of Umbrella Categories]]

Category:Lectures at Religious Institutions

2013-12-03T11:50:46Z

ArnabS: Created page with 'Category:List of Umbrella Categories'

[[Category:List of Umbrella Categories]]

Category:Lectures - India, Allahabad

2013-12-03T10:09:16Z

ArnabS: Created page with 'Category:Lectures - India Category:Lectures - by place Category:List of Timeline Categories'

[[Category:Lectures - India]]
[[Category:Lectures - by place]]
[[Category:List of Timeline Categories]]

Category:Lectures - Asia, Philippines - Manila

2013-12-02T14:19:23Z

ArnabS: Created page with 'Category:Lectures - Asia Category:Lectures - by place Category:List of Timeline Categories'

[[Category:Lectures - Asia]]
[[Category:Lectures - by place]]
[[Category:List of Timeline Categories]]

Category:Lectures - Queen Kunti Series

2013-12-01T11:52:17Z

ArnabS: Created page with 'Category:Lectures and Conversations - by type Category:List of Umbrella Categories'

[[Category:Lectures and Conversations - by type]]
[[Category:List of Umbrella Categories]]

Category:Lectures - Lord Kapila Series

2013-12-01T11:38:03Z

ArnabS: Created page with 'Category:Lectures and Conversations - by type Category:Category:List of Umbrella Categories'

[[Category:Lectures and Conversations - by type]]
[[Category:Category:List of Umbrella Categories]]

Category:Arrival and Departure Talks

2013-12-01T11:22:34Z

ArnabS: Created page with 'Category:Lectures and Conversations - by type Category:List of Umbrella Categories'

[[Category:Lectures and Conversations - by type]]
[[Category:List of Umbrella Categories]]

Category:Lectures - India, Tirupati

2013-11-30T16:38:16Z

ArnabS: Created page with 'Category:Lectures - India Category:Lectures - by place Category:List of Timeline Categories'

[[Category:Lectures - India]]
[[Category:Lectures - by place]]
[[Category:List of Timeline Categories]]

Category:Conversations with Scientists

2013-11-29T10:43:32Z

ArnabS: Created page with 'Category:Conversations - by person Category:List of Umbrella Categories'

[[Category:Conversations - by person]]
[[Category:List of Umbrella Categories]]

Category:Lectures at Educational Institutions

2013-11-28T16:37:56Z

ArnabS: Created page with '9'

[[Category:List of Umbrella Categories|9]]

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1976, Hyderabad

2013-11-27T11:29:25Z

ArnabS: moved Morning Walk -- August 27, 1976, Hyderabad to Morning Walk -- August 27, 1976, at Lodi Gardens, Delhi

#REDIRECT [[Morning Walk -- August 27, 1976, at Lodi Gardens, Delhi]]

Category:Conversations with Bank Personnel

2013-11-26T12:12:07Z

ArnabS: Created page with ' Category:Conversations - by person Category:List of Umbrella Categories'

[[Category:Conversations - by person]]
[[Category:List of Umbrella Categories]]

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay

2013-11-25T18:38:29Z

ArnabS: moved Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay to Morning Walk -- August 15, 1976, Bombay: In new vedabase this page has been made to aug 15

#REDIRECT [[Morning Walk -- August 15, 1976, Bombay]]

761205 - Morning Walk - Hyderabad

2013-11-25T17:37:29Z

ArnabS: Created page with '{{CV_Header|{{PAGENAME}}}} <div class="code">761205MW-HYDERABAD</div> (in car) Prabhupāda: This rascal theory has meant an atheist. (break) Vāsughoṣa: ...m…'

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<div class="code">761205MW-HYDERABAD</div>

(in car)
Prabhupāda: This rascal theory has meant an atheist. (break)
Vāsughoṣa: ...mānava-sevā say, "I don't have to support your society or your temple because God is everywhere."
Prabhupāda: This is also mānava-sevā. We are giving this knowledge to the human society. Is it not sevā? They are remaining in darkness of their position, and we are giving them this knowledge. This is not sevā?
Vāsughoṣa: But what about the poor, hungry, and the suffering bodies?
Prabhupāda: Yes, poor, hungry, come. We can give you food. We are giving, already. Show the pictures. You have not seen the pictures of Māyāpur, how two thousand, three thousand people we are giving? That is included. Bhāgavata-sevā includes that. You do not require to do it separately. It is already there. Just like if you pour water on the root, the watering the leaf is included. But if you water the leaf, then that tree will dry. And that is not complete. But if you pour water on the root of the tree, it is complete. Why don't you give this reason? This is natural. If you give food to the stomach, the service of the other parts of the body is included. But if you give food to the eyes, it is spoiled only. The food is spoiled, the eyes are spoiled, and nobody is satisfied. Why don't you give this reason?
Vāsughoṣa: So in that way, because they are not feeding the stomach, they are actually starving.
Prabhupāda: Starving. They are supplying food to the eyes. The eyes are becoming blind and the food is wasted and no nutrition.
Vāsughoṣa: So by this kind of philosophy they are destroying themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is against their interest. These rascals, they do not know what is their interest. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum ([[SB 7.5.31|SB 7.5.31]]). If you keep the stomach empty and try to supply food to the eyes and legs, it is simply waste of time. But these rascals, they do not know. They will go on committing mistakes after mistakes. This is the position. We are giving the real knowledge, that "You serve in this way. Then everyone will be pleased." Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3).
Vāsughoṣa: They are simply acting out of ignorance.
Prabhupāda: That's it. So you are... We are delivering them from ignorance. (kīrtana) (break) (end)

{{CV_Footer|{{PAGENAME}}}}

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2013-11-25T17:10:02Z

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760813 - Arrival - Bombay

2013-11-25T15:16:33Z

ArnabS: Created page with '{{CV_Header|{{PAGENAME}}}} <div class="code">760705MW-WASHINGTON DC</div> {{CV_Footer|{{PAGENAME}}}}'

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760812 - Conversation C - Tehran

2013-11-25T15:14:54Z

ArnabS: Created page with '{{CV_Header|{{PAGENAME}}}} <div class="code">760705MW-WASHINGTON DC</div> {{CV_Footer|{{PAGENAME}}}}'

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760812 - Conversation B - Tehran

2013-11-25T15:14:44Z

ArnabS: Created page with '{{CV_Header|{{PAGENAME}}}} <div class="code">760705MW-WASHINGTON DC</div> {{CV_Footer|{{PAGENAME}}}}'

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760812 - Conversation D - Tehran

2013-11-25T15:14:34Z

ArnabS: Created page with '{{CV_Header|{{PAGENAME}}}} <div class="code">760705MW-WASHINGTON DC</div> {{CV_Footer|{{PAGENAME}}}}'

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760809 - Conversation A - Tehran

2013-11-25T14:31:18Z

ArnabS: Created page with '{{CV_Header|{{PAGENAME}}}} <div class="code">760809R1-TEHRAN</div> Prabhupāda: If you find out sand and rocks, you must also (indistinct) there was water. And from water, v…'

{{CV_Header|{{PAGENAME}}}}
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Prabhupāda: If you find out sand and rocks, you must also (indistinct) there was water. And from water, vegetation comes. From vegetation, other life comes. What we speak, we don't speak unscientifically. It is scientific. How this rascal says all of a sudden in the sky there is rock? Wherefrom the rock came?
Hari-śauri: Well, they say originally from gas.
Prabhupāda: Gas?
Hari-śauri: Gas.
Prabhupāda: So gas... Without water, there cannot be gas.
Hari-śauri: Gas, and then it liquifies and then it solidifies.
Prabhupāda: Liquid means water. So as soon as there is water, there is vegetation. You'll find everywhere. Water dries up, vegetable comes.
Parivrājakācārya: Today they are exploring Mars, and they are saying that they're finding water on Mars.
Prabhupāda: Water's there. Everything must be there. Pañca-bhūta, mahā-bhūta. Ether, then fire, then water, then land. Everything is described in the Bhāgavatam. They cannot speak nonsense. They can speak nonsense through the other literatures, but we cannot speak. Without water, how there is possibility of sand? Sand means it is salt.
Parivrājakācārya: If you go out here, there is a big desert.
Prabhupāda: That means there was water.
Parivrājakācārya: Yes, and under the desert always. I took a trip a few weeks ago, all over Iran, through the deserts, to villages, and always just forty feet, forty meters under the desert, lots of water. They would bring the water up and then there would be green, they would grow vegetables. So even here there's water.
Prabhupāda: The water, sea, as it becomes solidified, the outer surface, by sunshine they become, it is called sodium silicate. Salt is sodium chloride. So from sodium chloride, the sodium silicate. So cover of the sea they can solidify by the sodium silicate. But underneath there is water. Just like our this skin, bone, coming from where? We are eating liquid and..., or some vegetables or some whatever, they are becoming liquidified. And first transformation is blood. Blood is liquid, and from blood everything is coming. The muscle is coming, the bone is coming. The more the liquid portion becomes solidified by air, gas, then these things coming. The formation of this body beginning the liquid semina, liquid ovum, mix together. From liquid. Then they form pealike solid thing, from that liquid. And then the body forms. Wherefrom the solid body forms? The man injects liquid. Liquid inject, everything is coming. So wherefrom the solid body comes? By chemical composition the body forms, from liquid to solid. So as soon as you see some solid thing, you must know that it has come from liquid.
Parivrājakācārya: It got its form from liquid. The form, it had to come from liquid somehow.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Yes, liquid. The discharge of semina is liquid. It is not solid. So how this body comes? You cannot bluff that a solid has come all of a sudden. There was liquid, or there is liquid.
Hari-śauri: Well, they'll accept that there was liquid.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then there must have been vegetable. As soon as there is liquid there is vegetation.
Hari-śauri: Their argument is that because there's no atmosphere, then there's no vegetation.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... That is another bogus. The atmosphere is the same everywhere. Little more. Just like in... (break) ...say in the sun planet there is living entity, that is fire. So what do you mean by atmosphere, if even in fire there is life? Dahati pāvakaḥ. Bhagavad-gītā. Nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ ([[BG 2.23|BG 2.23]]). Pāvakaḥ means fire. Does not burn the soul. So where there is fire only, he develops fiery body. Not that by the fire it is finished. Nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Where there is gas, air, nainam... Find out this verse. Acchedyo' yam adāhyo' yam.
Hari-śauri: Gītā?
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā, yes. You do not read even. You should have reference immediately. (devotees search for verse)
Parivrājakācārya: Even here on the earth, even ice in the South Pole of the earth, they find much life inside the ice.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Here inside the ice there are life.
Parivrājakācārya: They are very surprised. They said, "How is this happening?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Life is everywhere. This bogus theory there is no life, the atmosphere is different, it is bogus, simply bogus. Because spirit soul is never affected by any material atmosphere. That is the distinction between matter and spirit. It has nothing to do with material atmosphere. They don't have knowledge, they are baffled. And those who have no knowledge, they are accepting.
Hari-śauri:
:nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi
:nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ
:na cainaṁ kledayanty āpo
:na śoṣayati mārutaḥ
:([[BG 2.23|BG 2.23]])
"The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind."
Prabhupāda: So where is question of atmosphere influence? Suppose there is rock and sand and always hot weather. That does not mean there cannot be any life. The life is never affected by all these things. Make propaganda about this knowledge. People will understand that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not joking; it is something serious. That boy was saying that these scientist, they know me. What is this boy's name, this boy said about the so-called astronomer, scientist? Who was this boy?
Pradyumna: Who came last night?
Hari-śauri: One of our boys, American boy, that tall boy.
Parivrājakācārya: Jñānagamya.
Pradyumna: Here in this temple?
Hari-śauri: Yes. Jñānagamya. He used to work with some science research as well. (indistinct comments about Jñānagamya) 
Parivrājakācārya: The scientists are like all materialists. They think if we have not seen it...
Prabhupāda: (coughing heavily) You have to see from the book. Seeing from the book is real seeing. What you can see with these blunt eyes? I have seen in these navigators. They see in the different plans and books, and they direct their ship or airplane accordingly. How can he see where we are going?
Hari-śauri: Just like they land an aeroplane.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got all plans and direction, and altitude, latitude and everything, which direction is going on in front of the pilot. So everything is there. In what position the plane is there, how high it is and how low it will be, where it is—everything. On that direction they can fly. Otherwise, what they can see with the eyes? Utmost ten miles, and it is running at six hundred miles? What ten miles will do them? So śāstra-cakṣuṣā. Authoritative literature should be the eyes, not these blunt eyes. What is the value of these eyes? Now here is authority: nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. You should go to the school, colleges, and from Bhagavad-gītā give them real knowledge. The whole world is in darkness, and these rascals are guiding them. 
(pause) 
Prabhupāda: You have tasted the barā? Nim barā?
Pradyumna: This morning.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Did you like it?
Parivrājakācārya: It tasted very healthy.
Prabhupāda: Healthy?
Parivrājakācārya: Healthy. 
Prabhupāda: Healthy? What is that?
Parivrājakācārya: It tasted like it was good for me.
Hari-śauri: That means it didn't taste very nice, but we accepted it was good.
Parivrājakācārya: I know by my intelligence that it is good to keep eating, even though my tongue was saying "Stop."
Prabhupāda: No, this nim is good. They say that if you eat at least two leaves of nim daily, you'll never lose your appetite. Appetite will be continuing.
Hari-śauri: Who can eat two leaves of nim? (laughing)
Prabhupāda: No, if you practice, it is not impossible.
Pradyumna: I ate them one time. Remember in Bombay, I thought I had worms? You told me to eat nim?
Prabhupāda: Effective? What happened?
Pradyumna: Well, I didn't notice anything happened, but it was very, very bitter, so bitter.
Prabhupāda: So that worms cured or not?
Pradyumna: I don't know. Sometimes I think I have worms.
Prabhupāda: You should not eat sweet.
Parivrājakācārya: You cannot get nim in Iran. I have never seen a nim tree in Iran.
Prabhupāda: No tree, simply desert. Where is tree? All desert. All this Middle East, desert. So they can be allowed to eat meat. Otherwise, how for they'll eat? Everyone must eat something. So if there is no vegetation, if there is no sufficient, they can be allowed.
Parivrājakācārya: I visited some of these small villages in the south of Iran, and the tents of nomads who kept sheep, that was their life. They had a tent and they had hundreds of sheep, and they would move the tent every month. They would take the tent, for one month they would live here, and next month they would move.
Prabhupāda: Why they're changing?
Parivrājakācārya: Because they're desert people. The sheep eat all the little green, and then they have to move on.
Pradyumna: Same thing as the Bible. When the sheep eat up all the green in that place, then they have to go to another place with their sheep. In the Bible the same thing. All that Abraham, Joseph...
Prabhupāda: Bible was produced here, in this desert land. Jerusalem is not far away. Mecca, Medina, (indistinct) Arabia.
Parivrājakācārya: All they had to eat was the milk of sheep and goats, and sometimes when they would camp near a farm they would have vegetables. Sometimes. And then the meat of the sheep.
Prabhupāda: And these dates. In the desert the date tree grows. Sometimes they eat camel also. Is it not?
Parivrājakācārya: Yes. But I don't think if they...
Prabhupāda: They cannot be strictly vegetarian; it is not possible.
Parivrājakācārya: It is difficult.
Prabhupāda: But even they eat meat, they can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no harm.
Parivrājakācārya: But now they are farming in the desert. The Iranian government has started farms. They are irrigating the land with water, and when they put water on the desert they get all kinds of vegetables and grains very easily. So if they do that then they can become vege... They have no excuse. The excuse of the people is that "We have to eat meat."
Prabhupāda: They can have rains from the sky by chanting. The rain will fall from the sky. Who can check it? (coughs heavily) Kṛṣṇa gives the water from the sky. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ ([[BG 3.14|BG 3.14]]).
Parivrājakācārya: They say in their books that this area used to be all forest with many, many trees about two to three thousand years ago. It was a very thick forest. But since then it has become desert; the rain has stopped since then.
Prabhupāda: Because the yajña stopped.
Pradyumna: That Sahara Desert used to be all trees, very fertile. Sahara Desert in Africa, it is the biggest desert in the world. Nothing...
Prabhupāda: Sahara, Sahara.
Pradyumna: Sahara Desert. It used to be very rich thousands of years ago, but then became desert.
Hari-śauri: It's supposed to increase its size by ten miles every year.
Pradyumna: Desert growth. Formerly, that city Carthage used to be there. Carthage was fighting Rome. Carthage was very rich, all farms.
Prabhupāda: Cartharian civilization was very big civilization. The thing is that the more people become sinful, they'll be disturbed by this natural atmosphere. Therefore I'm surprised that moon planet is inhabited by pious inhabitants, how there can be desert?
Pradyumna: But does moon planet have something to do with pitṛs? Does the Pitṛ..., Pitṛloka is different?
Prabhupāda: Pitṛ?
Pradyumna: Pitā, Pitṛ?
Prabhupāda: No, Pitṛloka is different. That is downwards.
Hari-śauri: Does that pitṛ, does that refer to the original progenitors?
Pradyumna: No, forefathers.
Prabhupāda: Latest development they are finding water in Mars?
Parivrājakācārya: They find... It is very difficult for them, because they are using their eyes and other instruments. They have found places where there were rivers, and they are finding ice and other things. So I don't know the latest developments. It is obvious to them there is life, different kinds of life.
Hari-śauri: The way of testing for life...
Prabhupāda: Why you are spoiling your nails? It may come to a boil, and then you'll understand. It is very dangerous habit. If there is little (indistinct), then it will become a boil.
Pradyumna: Jñānagamya said that on Mars they found something like a crater with a house. Looked like a... Or a bombed-out thing. This Jñānagamya was working with a..., he works with some information service, U.S. Information Service. So he was in charge of designing something here for Fourth of July, some program. So he got this information from this U.S. Information Service which generally..., sometimes it isn't made public. It's just in their U.S. service. They'd seen some kind of a crater with...
Parivrājakācārya: Roads in it as well.
Pradyumna: Yes, something with roads in it or something, they'd seen
Hari-śauri: The way they test for life is they take some soil and they mix certain things with it, and then they wait and see if there is some life development from that.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.
Hari-śauri: Yes. They mix ammonia and...
Prabhupāda: Same chemical theory. Why do they not in the end mix something and see if life is coming? They are all rascals, speaking one after another.
Hari-śauri: That's their whole thing, that if...
Prabhupāda: If by mixing something they can bring life, why not in the egg?
Hari-śauri: Yes, they can't even do it here, where there's so much life.
Prabhupāda: Simply for... But you rascals, you cannot understand how they are speaking rascaldom.
Hari-śauri: No, I can see now. I've been with you so long I can understand now.
Parivrājakācārya: They have sent this one ship to Mars at a cost of one billion dollars. They are making these tests.
Hari-śauri: Now they've got a second one going around as well. That's Viking 1 that's on there now, and they have another one, Viking 2, that's designed to orbit.
Pradyumna: Vikings were names of pirates. Viking means pirates. Pirate's a thief. Vikings, they used to be thieves. They've named their spaceship Viking. (laughs) (break) 
Prabhupāda: ...main idea going to the other planets? Colonization, or what?
Pradyumna: One thing, they say, is security, that America and Russia are fighting. So it was a race to get to the moon because they think that from other planets that they can control conditions on the earth. From another planet they can control weather or they can control different things.
Prabhupāda: Just see how bogus.
Pradyumna: That is one thing they say, they must get to the moon first, for security.
Prabhupāda: That is now failure. Now they'll do it from Mars.
Hari-śauri: Not so much from there for security. It's just...
Parivrājakācārya: Their pride. One country, just like children playing, one can say, "I can fly higher than you," and so "We can go to the moon before you can." For no reason than just to show they can do it.
Hari-śauri: It's an excuse to spend money. It's for fun.
Prabhupāda: They cannot settle up their misunderstanding here. By going to the moon planet, they'll do it.
Hari-śauri: That's one thing that they said they were going to do, actually. They had some Russian astronauts and some American astronauts, and they had them meet in space, and then they joined their spaceships together, and then they had a meal together and did some experiments, and then they left again. So that was very much acclaimed as bringing the two nations closer together.
Prabhupāda: We are afraid of these two classes of rascals. "Afraid of" means we don't want their association. It is very dangerous.
Pradyumna: You said in the Bhāgavatam, just now, that we are afraid of the materialistic men.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Personally I feel; I have several times told. For a devotee to live with nondevotees is so obnoxious and troublesome, it is sometimes mentioned, better to remain within a cage surrounded by fire, and still, don't remain with nondevotees. You prefer to live within a cage surrounded by fire. That living is preferable than to live with this nondevotee class.
Hari-śauri: A lot of the devotees had that experience living with their parents before they joined the movement. It was so hellish they had to get out. Then they, some way or other, met...
Prabhupāda:
:tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās
:janame janame hoy ei abhilāṣ
:(Hari Haraye Namaḥ, 7)
Bhakta-sane bās, that is the essential part of progressing. 
(pause) 
Prabhupāda: Dayānanda's daughter came, in my lavatory.
Hari-śauri: When you were in?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I was going... 
Hari-śauri: In?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Generally, this barā are made with paṭola leaves, paṭola leaves mashed and mixed with this dahī.
Hari-śauri: Is that just as healthy as nim leaves? Paṭola leaves? Just the same.
Prabhupāda: It is better. (break) ...the influence of the moon planet, the vegetation grows. Do they accept, the modern botanists, influence of moon planet?
Parivrājakācārya: All the farmers, they...
Prabhupāda: They do believe?
Parivrājakācārya: They believe that. They plant certain seeds according to the moon.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Pradyumna: Even in the West they only plant certain things on the waxing moon, not on the waning moon. On śukla-pakṣa.
Prabhupāda: And moon is vacant. By the influence of moon, other vegetation growing, and it cannot grow itself.
Hari-śauri: They admit that the moon rays have some kind of potency. They know that.
Prabhupāda: No, it is stated in the Bhāgavatam.
Pradyumna: In the Jyotiṣa it has..., it controls liquids. And I think even in hospitals here, near Pūrṇimā, where some of the times they don't like to do the operations because there will be more..., the blood will run more. Something, they have some..., someone had told me. The tides are also going according to the moon. The rivers are running according to the moon. In the Ganges, one time we went, swimming in Calcutta...
Prabhupāda: The ebb tide, flow tide, according to the moon.
Pradyumna: Something like that. One day the Ganges was very peaceful, and then we went again and it was rushing. If you went in you would just be carried away. You could only... (break) 
Prabhupāda: You can do it here. (referring to massage)
Hari-śauri: You don't want to go outside today?
Prabhupāda: Sunshine is bright. (end)

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760809 - Conversation C - Tehran

2013-11-25T14:28:16Z

ArnabS: Created page with '{{CV_Header|{{PAGENAME}}}} <div class="code">760809GC-TEHRAN</div> Prabhupāda: And mix with mustard oil and this, what is called, eggplant. Eggplant roasted in the fire and…'

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Prabhupāda: And mix with mustard oil and this, what is called, eggplant. Eggplant roasted in the fire and put with little mustard oil, salt and chilis, it becomes very tasteful. So puffed rice and that, they take in Bengal. That is tiffin, for breakfast. Formerly they were happy by simply by eating palatable dishes according to...
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Today they have become so rich they cannot eat.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Simply they can eat meat. 
(whispered background discussion while Hari-śauri explains to another devotee about using the tape recorder) (break)
Prabhupāda: Drinking is prohibited.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, absolutely not. The modern Muslims drink.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say drinking is prohibited.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Prohibited. Yes. It is not permitted; prohibited.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I say prohibited.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Muslim religion, it seems to me, is closer to Vedic culture than Christian. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...given to the modern scientist one proposal, egg proposal. You explain.
Hari-śauri: That if the scientist are so expert and they should be able to back up their claim of life coming from chemicals, then why can't they produce an egg which will give life? They can take some chemicals and make the white, and take some little coloring to make it yellow inside, and wrap it up in some modern synthetic casing, and then put it in an incubator and let it produce life.
Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? These rascals, it is proposed that life comes from chemicals. So take a small egg and analyze, find out the chemicals, same chemicals combine together, and bring life. Hmm? Why? What is the answer? He's for the modern scientists. (laughter) He represents them.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the scientists is going to sit on those eggs?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the scientist will sit on the eggs?
Prabhupāda: Scientist may not be... They're putting in the incubator, producing so many chickens. So why the egg is taken from the chicken? Why not manufacture and produce hundreds and thousands of chickens, chemical? First of all, begin with chicken then with other.
Parivrājakācārya: They say they are working on this. They think...
Prabhupāda: Rascal. Working, it is already being done, so what is your credit? We are working. You may work also, but what is your credit? Suppose if you become successful. What is your credit? It is already being done by the chicken. Why should you take the laureate title, Dr. such-and-such. Give it to the chicken. What they can do? Can they produce a seed of this, just like one seed produce so many things? Bījāhaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Where is your credit? (break) Mines, as soon as it is nationalized, nobody will take. In 1950, twenty-five years, twenty-six years ago, I was in Madras, Gauḍīya Maṭha, and there is a bus stop in front of the temple. So every bus was making some sound, huuuuuung, but when nothing was properly oiled. The machine is going to hell when it is managed by the government. As soon as there is government management, nobody wants. 
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Impersonalism.
Prabhupāda: Impersonalism. Nobody wants. So long there is proprietorship, the proprietor takes care, that "My machine will go bad if I don't take care." But who cares for that? That showing that so much oil purchased, who is going to check it? People have become dishonest. On account of godlessness, everyone is dishonest. He's dishonest to himself even. Doesn't take care of the body properly. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ ([[SB 5.18.12|SB 5.18.12]]). Therefore you cannot expect good qualities of the human society without injecting God consciousness. (break) ...in the mass of people amongst themselves. Do they fight very much amongst themselves?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Not so much. They are not as peaceful as Indians. They are not as peaceful as Indians. They are not as pious as Indians.
Prabhupāda: They cannot be. In India still you will find hundreds and thousands of men are going to take bath in the Ganges in the morning. They might have only one cloth and one napkin, still, they will take twice bath. With the napkin, they change the cloth and wash it and spread it on the ground. By the time he finishes his bathing, the cloth is dry. That is India's advantage. And he puts some fresh cloth, and the napkin is also dry. And he'll become refreshed. And in his loṭā he'll take some water of the Ganges and he'll go home. In Vṛndāvana you'll find many thousands, in the morning, with loṭā they go out, evacuate somewhere, and then wash hands, mouth, with cloth, taking bathing in the Ganges, er, Yamunā. Now they are polluting the Yamunā water, the government. In Vṛndāvana government is opening oil refinery, and people are being encouraged, "These are new temples." Everywhere people are being degraded. They have no tendency to become purified, God conscious, honest. Because they do not believe in the next birth. This garden belongs to the palace? No.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: It is so-called belongs to the people, to the government. But here, palace has a lot of influence.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the king must have. That is... Clean here.
Hari-śauri: No, they're just looking. Probably the amount of cleaners that's been past, this should be the cleanest spot in the whole park by now. 
(Iranian men talking)
Prabhupāda: Pashto language. Pashto. 
Devotee: Pashto. 
Prabhupāda: This language resembles like that. This Iranian. (break) And they are claiming, "It is ours." Nobody has created anything. God has created for His pleasure. Everything is God's property, and they have made an unfavorable situation, "My property." Now here is a city; it is all right, there is no trouble. But if I say it is my property and you say it is your property, then there is trouble. Then there is immigration department, "Why you are coming here?" Then the dogs barking, yow-yow-yow. This is going on as civilization. First of all, they claim God's property falsely their own, and they create a situation. And for this purpose the whole world is working, how to create a bad situation of proprietorship-right on God's property, that's all.
Nava-yauvana: The statement made the other day by the king that all the forests and natural resources were made by God. No man can make these things. So therefore...
Prabhupāda: The king?
Nava-yauvana: The king said that.
Prabhupāda: But that's a fact.
Nava-yauvana: But his conclusion was not correct. He said therefore these things are owned by the government, which represents the people. He didn't understand.
Prabhupāda: It belongs to God. If this is accepted, and God... And everyone is God's son. Therefore as the son can enjoy the father's property, they can enjoy. But they cannot claim proprietorship. And directed by the father, one can enjoy the father's property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that's all. Nobody's unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that "It is God's property. You can utilize it as far as you need; you don't take more. Whatever you need, you take, but you cannot take more." Like the birds and beasts, they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they'll eat some fruit, then they will go away. When they are hungry they will go another tree. They never claim that "This is my tree. This is my fruit." This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he'll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.
Hari-śauri: But they say that that's intelligence, to make preparation for the future.
Prabhupāda: Yes, to steal God's property is certainly intelligence. Very good intelligence. They must suffer. Must be punished. For this intelligence they must be punished. (men talking in background) So if they want to hear, these men...?
Hari-śauri: Their idea is that God may have made everything, but now it's for us to divide up and enjoy between us.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Hari-śauri: God may have made everything, but now..., He has no connection with it now.
Prabhupāda: Why? He has made and He has no connection? What is this rascal theory? He has made everything and He has no connection.
Hari-śauri: No, He gives up the connection.
Prabhupāda: Why He gives up? He has made for His enjoyment. Why should He give up?
Hari-śauri: They say that He's made for our enjoyment, and it's for us to divide and enjoy.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are rascal. Everything is done by somebody. Suppose if you organize one business, that is for your enjoyment. If God has created anything, that is for His enjoyment. But you are sons of God, you can enjoy the property of the father as far as you require. Not more than; you cannot take more than that. Then other sons will claim and there will be fight. You live. You are son of God, you live at the expense of God. God has sufficient supply. But don't try to take more and stock. That is folly. You eat; you live very nicely. There is no prohibition. But you cannot take more than what you require. This is Bhāgavata communism. If you take more, you'll be punished. (break) ...our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā ([[ISO 1|ISO 1]]). The Indians are trained up like that. He is happy in whatever condition of life he is placed. He doesn't protest. Any Indian villager, he'll say, "God has given me this position, that's all right." Therefore the modern man is complaining that in India, this God consciousness has made them lethargetic. They do not do... They believe on the destiny only. Actually they do. Actually they do. Therefore from the very beginning you'll find so nice philosophy, literature, but you won't find the modernized economic development—big, big house, big, big road, no. There was no such attempt.
Hari-śauri: They're not interested in increasing the unnecessary items.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Why? If there is already sufficient supply of my necessities of life, why shall I waste my time? They knew how to utilize time.
Nava-yauvana: One argument that people sometimes give when we say that the world was created for His pleasure, they say that God...
Prabhupāda: How shall we go, in the shade? It is sunny...
Hari-śauri: I think the earth is very damp. If you sit on it, it becomes wet.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: You sit on another bench. There's many benches.
Prabhupāda: The park belongs to government of the king. So you can come, sit down here, enjoy. Why should we claim proprietorship? Then there is trouble. Otherwise, it is kept very nicely. You come, sit down, enjoy the atmosphere. Everyone has got the right. But why shall we claim proprietorship unnecessarily and create trouble? Because you are allowed to sit down here, if you say, "From henceforward, I am the proprietor," then others will say, "Then I am the proprietor. Then why you are coming here?" Then there is trouble.
Nava-yauvana: They say that God has no need to enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Beat him with shoes on his face. Because He has created and He has no need to enjoy. Why He has created? He's your father's servant, that He's created for you? He has created for His enjoyment. That is the tendency everywhere. I create something for my enjoyment. But I can allow others to enjoy also with me, that is another thing. How can you say that God has simply created for your enjoyment? What is his claim? Is there any practical example in the world, that somebody creates something for others? Is there any example? Why do you claim in this way, which is unusual? What is the ground of your this rascal philosophy? Wherefrom you get this idea that I create something for somebody else? I create for myself, for my enjoyment. But I can allow you to enjoy with me. That is another thing. A father creates family for his own enjoyment. Wife, children, he wants enjoyment—society, family. Therefore he takes the risk of maintaining so many people. He feels some enjoyment, therefore he takes the risk. Otherwise he has no business. Why should he create unnecessary trouble to maintain a family, maintain wife, children and society? The principle is if you create something, it is created for your personal enjoyment. But I can allow my sons, my wife, my family members to enjoy with me. But the basic principle is for my enjoyment. This is natural. Where do you get this philosophy that...? What you said? That God cannot enjoy.
Nava-yauvana: Yes, He doesn't need to enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Nava-yauvana: They say because He's not like human being.
Prabhupāda: Because He's not like a human being, therefore He cannot enjoy. There are so many animals, they are not like human beings. Why they enjoy sex? Can you forbid him, that "You are not like human being. You cannot enjoy"? These are nonsense philosophy. Because they do not know what is God, what He is, what is His position, relationship, therefore these nonsense things are said.
Parivrājakācārya: They think that God is their servant.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no more God. God cannot be servant of anyone. God is master. As soon as He becomes servant, He's no more God. Then you are God. Then you do not know what is the meaning of God. Therefore you are rascal. You do not know the meaning of God and you are trying to explain God. Therefore you are a rascal. The difficulty is at the present moment, rascals are leading the human society. No sane man, only rascals. Their philosophy, their science, their politics, their sociology, because they are guided by the rascals, everything is bad.
Prabhupāda: Yes. 
Nava-yauvana: They are the biggest cheaters, so everyone becomes cheater.
Dayānanda: Shall we go here, Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's very (indistinct) there.
Prabhupāda: Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful; mūḍha, rascal; lowest of the men, narādhama; and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge. Therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.
Dayānanda: They judge everything on the basis of what is good for humanity.
Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?
Dayānanda: Whatever gives pleasure to the greatest number of people.
Prabhupāda: Pleasure... So that is child. Even a child also feels pleasure with something. But it is the duty of the parent to train him to the right point of pleasure. The child takes pleasure playing the whole day. But the father does not allow him. If you leave..., let the child seeks his own pleasure, then you are spoiling him. Then there is no need of becoming your father, guardian. Let him be spoiled by his whimsical pleasure. There is no need of training, schooling, colleges. There is no need. In my childhood I was not willing to go to the schools. My mother forced. By force she used to... My father was lenient, and my mother kept a special man, yamadhara(?), that "Your duty is to take him by force to the school." Yes. My father..., my mother would complain that "Your boy did not go to school." "Oh, he did not go to school?" And I was sure he was very affectionate. "Why?" "No, I shall go tomorrow." Then father, "All right, he will go tomorrow, that's all right." But that tomorrow will never come. This is my practical. My mother forced me. So I thought, "It is pleasure. Why shall I go to school? Let me play whole day." But it is the duty of the guardian to see that this is not pleasure, this is spoiling. A child may think something pleasure, but the guardian should not think that this is pleasure. This is spoiling him. Otherwise why the guardians are required? Why government is needed, why king is needed, why father is needed, why guru is needed? Just to guide. Therefore whatever you think whimsically it is pleasure, the guru, the father, the king, the government, they should guide—"No, it is not pleasure. It is ruining. You should take like this." If the guru and father and the government, they are themselves rascals and fools, how they will guide? And that is the position. General public, they require guidance, but the guides themselves are rascals and fools, cheaters, bluffers. Therefore the condition, social condition... (passerby says something) He said in English?
Dayānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: We shall go now?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Whenever you like.
Hari-śauri: It's half past seven.
Prabhupāda: No, I have no objection. This is nice place.
Nava-yauvana: Because the leaders, they are thieves, they are taking the most, and then they...
Prabhupāda: They have become thieves because their guardians did not care for them. This is going on, paramparā. The paramparā is that God's instructions should be distributed. Evaṁ paramparā. But there is no followers of God's instruction. Therefore the fool's, rascal's paramparā is there. The father is a rogue and the son is rogue, the grandson is a rogue. What is wrong? The paramparā is rogue. And if they follow God's paramparā, then everything is all right. In the beginning, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam ([[BG 4.1|BG 4.1]]): "I said." That is perfect instruction. God is all-perfect; He is speaking. Now you follow that speaking, then you become perfect. And if you follow Satan, then you become a rogue, thief. The difficulty is they are not following the words of God. And religion means the words of God. It doesn't matter what kind of religion it is. If they actually follow the words of God, they become good. Just like in the Ten Commandments, the good instructions are there. So what is the wrong there? You follow, you become a good man. Similarly, in Koran also, there are good instruction. You follow, you become a good man. After all, religion means to try to understand God. So if you sincerely want to understand God and follow His instruction, any religion, it doesn't matter, you become a good man. Comparatively, according to the time, circumstances may be... Just like..., who told me? You told me that they cut throat of the lamb. There is a... Suppose that the blood goes to the Mecca side, still there is sense of God, a sense of God. Similarly, if they follow strictly the words of God, so everything is all right.
Dayānanda: But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, nowadays when people follow this so-called religion, they...
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are talking of religion, not so-called religion. So-called religion is finished. That is not religion.
Dayānanda: Then it is very difficult to find out what is real religion.
Prabhupāda: Why? Why the original, any religious scripture you can see.
Dayānanda: Then they will interpret.
Prabhupāda: No, that is wrong. You cannot interpret. You cannot change by resolution. That is not.
Dayānanda: Then they must have someone to tell them. Then they must have an authority.
Prabhupāda: It is already there, just like in the Bible.
Dayānanda: A spiritual master, I mean. They must have the person.
Prabhupāda: Yes, spiritual master, yes, must be there. That is Vedic injunction. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Spiritual... That I have already explained. Spiritual master, good father, good king, good teachers, they are required. That is defect. There is no guru, there is no spiritual master, there is no nice king, nice father, whole society... (enters car) (break) (end)

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760809 - Conversation B - Tehran

2013-11-25T14:24:22Z

ArnabS: Created page with '{{CV_Header|{{PAGENAME}}}} <div class="code">760809R2-TEHRAN</div> Nandarāṇī: ...take a form. As soon as He takes a form... Prabhupāda: Apart from form, we are, …'

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Nandarāṇī: ...take a form. As soon as He takes a form...
Prabhupāda: Apart from form, we are, when we talk of God, at least we assume that He has form. They are offering prayer. Whom they are offering prayer?
Nandarāṇī: Allah.
Prabhupāda: Allah. So if Allah cannot hear, then what is the use of offering prayer? 
Nandarāṇī: No use.
Prabhupāda: If we are offering prayer, so Allah must hear it. Then He will be pleased upon you. So if He has no capacity to hear, then what is the use of your prayer? This is the logic. He must have capacity to hear what I am offering, prayers: "My Lord, Your Lordship is so great. You have created this universe," or "You are maintaining so many...," these things are there. So what is the purpose? That appreciating the uncommon activities of the Lord. This is prayer. What else? What do they mean by prayer? What is the meaning of their prayer?
Nandarāṇī: Their prayers are for glorification of God, just like our chanting.
Prabhupāda: Glorification means to recite the glorified activities. So He has got activities. Prayers describing the glorified activities. So just like our prayers also. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipā... (Bs. 5.29). The Lord is tending cows, and He's surrounded by so many goddess of fortune, gopīs, these things are described. Cintāmaṇi-prakara. So the Lord's activities, Lord's place, how He is surrounded by other devotees or servitors, how He is tending, these are prayer. So what is their prayer? Did you try to understand? What do they offer?
Nandarāṇī: Allah illallah is a common...
Prabhupāda: That is their word, but what is the meaning?
Nandarāṇī: "God is great."
Prabhupāda: God is great, but how He is great?
Nandarāṇī: That is not emphasized, how He is great, just that He is great.
Prabhupāda: Then there is the proof of less intelligence. God is great, very good, but how He is great? What is the conception of greatness? You accept me as your spiritual master, great, so you have got some conception of greatness. That you see in your spiritual master; therefore you accept him. And if you have no conception of greatness, what is the meaning of "He is great"? Therefore the real fact is, in the world there is no religion. They do not understand what is God, what is religion. Traditional, you can say superstition or some idea, actually no clear conception of religion. No idea in the world, except in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All vague ideas. "God is great," that's all. How He is great and (indistinct)? Who is God, that is not known. And our ideal is to love God. So if I do not know about God, if I do not know who is God, then where is the question of love?
Nandarāṇī: But their faith is there.
Prabhupāda: That is good, but that is called sa bhakta prākṛta smṛtaḥ. That is not exactly on the transcendental platform. In the material platform, just appreciating some great power beyond our reach, that's all. Not clear idea. Therefore they are disturbed when they think form. Form means limitation, they think. At least, they should think like that. They do not know. Nobody knows, except in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Why we have described about God so many books? But they have this idea, very poor idea. But they are accepting God is great. That will help in future.
Nandarāṇī: That's elevating them. That faith is elevating them?
Prabhupāda: Someday, if they come in contact with a real devotee, they'll appreciate. Just like you are coming. So they have to meet some devotee, then they'll be benefited. With the present idea there will be very slow progress. Practically no progress, but even there is little progress, very slow. So unless they come in contact with a pure devotee, then...
Hari-śauri: Hmm. Books. Your books.
Nandarāṇī: If we distribute your books and prasādam, then that is as good as them coming to meet you personally?
Prabhupāda: No, personally also, you can do. If they come, you instruct them. But the prasādam and book distribution, very important line. If he's intelligent, by reading books will help him. In Europe and America, you have got intelligence. By reading books, they are coming to the sense. And in this part of the world they are not so intelligent.
Nandarāṇī: We find only a very small percentage of the Iranians that can speak English well enough to understand even Īśopaniṣad, which is very simple English.
Prabhupāda: Very simple.
Nandarāṇī: And I give Bhagavad-gītās, I distribute Bhagavad-gītā...
Prabhupāda: If they understand any book, Īśopaniṣad, if they understand, they will get improvement.
Nandarāṇī: Any book. Yes. Some Bhagavad-gītās I do, but it's an exceptional Iranian who can even read the book, what to speak of understand the concepts. Īśopaniṣad is easier for them. We are very eager to translate into Persian.
Prabhupāda: Īśopaniṣad.
Nandarāṇī: Īśopaniṣad, yes. I think that will be our first big attempt. Some essays we will try to do. "Who is Crazy?" is very good for them. They appreciate that article, and...
Prabhupāda: They appreciate?
Nandarāṇī: Yes, we have explained to some of them the concepts in "Who is Crazy?" and Īśopaniṣad is a good book for them.
Prabhupāda: (japa) So your daughter is good assistant in the matter of cooking?
Nandarāṇī: Yes, they are both very good in cooking. And they clean the altar, and they do some maintenance of the altar and the temple room, and they cook and sew, and I give them class in the morning, Bhagavad-gītā in English.
Prabhupāda: Yes, teach them personally. That Aniruddha is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just see.
Nandarāṇī: They are?
Prabhupāda: No, Aniruddha.
Nandarāṇī: Aniruddha, yes. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: They are also chanting.
Nandarāṇī: It is good for them here because they can preach. 
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. They preach?
Nandarāṇī: The guests who come, they are very attracted to these little children who can sing so many wonderful songs and read Sanskrit and preach from these heavy philosophical books that the Iranians cannot even understand. So they are learning to preach. I have a gurukula here for the Indian children. 
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Nandarāṇī: Thirty children I have.
Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.
Nandarāṇī: I have class only two days a week, because the city is big, and I have to go myself and collect them from their homes or meet in one home downtown, so the traffic is very difficult, so we only have class two days a week. But I teach Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa book...
Prabhupāda: They cannot come here?
Nandarāṇī: This, it takes them almost two hours to come from the city to here, so now they are coming here because on Janmāṣṭamī all thirty of them are putting on a play of Kṛṣṇa's birth from your Kṛṣṇa book. So starting Sunday until the 18th, every day I am bringing them here. I'm renting a minibus and getting them from the city and bringing them here for play practice. Then on Janmāṣṭamī we are having four hundred guests from the Indian community, and the children are putting on this "Birth of Kṛṣṇa" play.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Nandarāṇī: And they learn to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and play the karatālas. These children are actually like American children; they have no touch with their culture. Most of them don't know Kṛṣṇa from anyone else. So now I've taught them, just like we had to teach American children. And they like it very much. So they are doing the plays...
Prabhupāda: The parents also like it.
Nandarāṇī: The parents love it. The parents are very happy. And they pay some tuition, they pay just fifteen or twenty dollars for a summer session, and their children like it. They come and take prasādam, we have long kīrtanas. I've taught them to do pūjā, some āratik for Lord Jagannātha, and they like it so much. Now whenever their parents have their meetings, or whenever they're meeting, their children bring their deities and they have their own āratiks there, and they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It's very nice.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Nandarāṇī: Yes, the children like it very much. The parents also, because they don't want to take time to teach their children these things. They are so busy in their businesses and their...
Prabhupāda: They come here for money, at the sacrifice of... That is going on everywhere.
Nandarāṇī: Yes. 
Hari-śauri: (indistinct)
Nandarāṇī: We have Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities here, marble, sixteen inch, I think. They've been here for two years. Nava-yauvana got them in India because he thought that soon we would be able to worship them, but we will never have ten brāhmaṇas here. I mean, it will always be just a few...
Prabhupāda: Not ten brāhmaṇas; at least four, five.
Nandarāṇī: Right. But even so, we could not maintain a standard of six āratiks and six offerings, so we have not installed any Deities.
Prabhupāda: No, not necessary now. Now he is trying to purchase another house?
Nandarāṇī: He's trying.
Prabhupāda: That house can be completely temple, so that Indians may also come.
Hari-śauri: What if they started to worship Gaura-Nitāi? Gaura-Nitāi? Because the worship is not so strict as Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, and I know you've said before that They can...
Prabhupāda: Yes, Gaura-Nitāi can be worshiped twice.
Hari-śauri: Yes, two āratiks a day and kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Gaura-Nitāi is worshiped simply by kīrtana.
Hari-śauri: The problem they have here is because there's no Deities, then things like the practices they have in the kitchen, and the general bhakti rules and regulations, are a little slack because the Deity's not there. So if they had some Deity, then that will encourage them, maṅgala-ārati at a certain time and like that.
Prabhupāda: Atreya Ṛṣi recommending another house.
Nandarāṇī: Yes, we actually want two places, because when Iranian businessmen come, we cannot just show them the altar and say, "Here is our program." It must be very careful. And yet when the Indians come we want to have Deities, we want to have kīrtana. So we are trying to do two things in one house, and it is very difficult. 
Prabhupāda: Now make separate.
Nandarāṇī: So he wants a separate place for a restaurant, for Deities, for my gurukula school, a place..., a big room for my classroom, and then a separate home when we have some sophisticated guest we can bring them for dinner. But then when we have many Indians, we can bring them for Deities. The Indians, they think this is a temple, but because there are no Deities, then they are not inclined to come. They want to see the Deity.
Prabhupāda: Indians, they want Deity.
Nandarāṇī: They want to see the Deity.
Prabhupāda: Temple means Deity. There must be Deity.
Nandarāṇī: So these Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities, we should simply keep until some future time when we might be able to worship Them?
Prabhupāda: No, if you can, in a separate house, if you can follow the principles, you can install.
Nandarāṇī: I remember in Delhi when they had only a few devotees, they were having three āratiks a day, a very simple program for Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: They can do that, simple, three.
Nandarāṇī: Can it be three? Can it be simple?
Prabhupāda: Maṅgala āratik, bhoga āratika and sundara āratik, that's all.
Nandarāṇī: And changing Their clothes every day?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That must be.
Nandarāṇī: Bathing and changing of Their clothes and three āratiks—once we have a separate place and we have devotees to maintain Them. We have been eager to worship Deities, so we planted tulasīs, so now we have sixty tulasīs, 
Prabhupāda: Yes, I understand that.
Nandarāṇī: So we are looking forward to worshiping the Deity and having a good program for bhakti.
Prabhupāda: Here also you can do, but Atreya Ṛṣi thinks separate building. He thinks like that.
Nandarāṇī: He wants a separate place. Because it is difficult for all of us to do two things. It is very... It's just very difficult. So having two places would mean we could have one run like a temple and one run like a home. If many devotees come here and wear old clothes and live... Devotees, sometimes they want to dress in old clothes, they want to be very strict, they want to be very austere. But when the businessmen come and they see a devotee with shaved head and old rags on, then they think...
Prabhupāda: Shocked.
Nandarāṇī: Yes. "What is this?" you know. So... But at the same time, we don't want to always dress very nicely; we want to be devotees. We want to be simple.
Prabhupāda: We must be clean.
Nandarāṇī: Clean, yes.
Prabhupāda: The dress is not important—cleanliness.
Hari-śauri: You can dress in karmī clothes and still be very strict Vaiṣṇava.
Nandarāṇī: Here we wear mostly street clothes, like the Iranians—suits and dresses and like that.
Prabhupāda: Just like he is not well dressed, but anyone who will, he'll immediately find he's cleansed. That is wanted. Cleansed dress. Dress is not important.
Nandarāṇī: I think Atreya Ṛṣi wants two places, one like a home and one like a temple. Those devotees who want to...
Prabhupāda: One can become clean with simply loincloth. It doesn't require dress. (break) ...Indian or here?
Nandarāṇī: Which...
Hari-śauri: Which climate is better? (laughter)
Nandarāṇī: (laughing) Well, I like India. I'm very fond of it.
Prabhupāda: (to guests) Come on.
Parivrājakācārya: We have a couple of guests.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Nandarāṇī: I will try to make that rice. 
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Nandarāṇī: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: (to guest) Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come here, forward.
Parivrājakācārya: This is Ali. He has helped me translate one article on vegetarianism. He's very qualified in that area.
Prabhupāda: Our... He'll understand English?
Parivrājakācārya: Very well.
Prabhupāda: Our mission is not to make the nonvegetarian as vegetarian. That will automatically be done. Our mission is to teach people how to love God.
Ali: That's right. I've noticed that. I had that conversation with Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: And to love God we must have definite idea of God, our exchange. Just like materially also, if somebody loves somebody, one must know each other. Otherwise, where there is question of love? Love means direct contact. So they speak of love of Godhead. Just like the Christian people, they say "love of Godhead." But they have no idea who is God. So where is the question of love? It is an impractical proposition, love of Godhead. First of all, you must know who is God. If I love somebody, I must know him, what he is. So this is going on. They speak of love of Godhead, but they do not know who is God or what is God. Therefore they are misguided. Simply it is word. There is no practical value. Do you agree with this point or not? If you have no idea of God, if you have no business with God, then where is the question of love? What is the definition of love, huh? What is the definition of love?
Ali: We talk about love, but I think you should personally..., an individual should experience. My definition would be, I think, unworthy.
Prabhupāda: Definition of love... You can explain what is definition of love.
Parivrājakācārya: I can explain the definition of bhakti.
Prabhupāda: No, you bring another word. But explain it, what is love. In Vedic language you get every definition. Love means two persons, one of..., both of them: beloved and the lover. Is it not? The first condition of love means there must be two persons. What do you think? There must be two persons when there is question of love.
Hari-śauri: Yes, it's a reciprocation.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Otherwise, where is love? What do you think? Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Try to understand one step by step.
Ali: Does that mean one loses himself? Personality?
Prabhupāda: What does he say?
Parivrājakācārya: He says, "Does that mean that one loses himself?"
Prabhupāda: Why? Then where is love? Why shall I lose? I exist, you exist, then there is love. If I am lost, then with whom there will be to love?
Ali: I didn't mean losing the existence, but losing the self-importance.
Hari-śauri: Self-interest.
Ali: Self-interest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very important thing. That is important, yes. But love means two persons, there is exchange: giving something, taking something; feeding something and to eat something; and speaking everything, no secrecy, and to know everything of the other person. When these things are transacted, then there is love. 
:Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati (Upadeśāmṛta 4)
If I love you and if I have got some secrecy, I don't disclose to you, that is not perfect love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. This is one of the basic principles. I shall invite you to eat with me, and I shall accept your invitation to eat with you. I shall give you some presentation, you shall give me some presentation. In this way love develops. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, or God, then these things must be there. Otherwise, where there is question of love? To appreciate God is great, that is not love; that is simply appreciation. But when we actually give everything to God and take everything from Him—you talk with Him of your mind, He talks with you; you give Him to eat, and whatever He gives you'll eat—in this way there is question of love. Simply appreciation of the greatness of God, that is good, in God consciousness, but that is not love. The love stage is different.
Ali: How can one understand God's love?
Prabhupāda: This is the process, I've described. We have got Deity of the Lord, we offer foodstuff prepared very nicely, and whatever leftover is there, we eat. We dress very nicely with flowers, with ornaments; we give Him a nice place to sit down, to sleep. He also looks after our comfort. In this way, exchange of love.
Ali: Just like when there is a mutual understanding, then...
Prabhupāda: No, there must be practical display.
Ali: Practical display.
Prabhupāda: Yes, simply understanding will not do. That is not love; that is appreciation.
Ali: How can I be practical about something without understanding that thing? Because I...
Prabhupāda: Understanding, guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati (Upadeśāmṛta 4). You try to understand God, and He explains what He is. You try to understand.
Ali: But I have been trained through intellect, trying to discern things the way that intellect functions. And I don't have spiritual training.
Prabhupāda: That training is given here, spiritual training.
Ali: And therefore, how am I to understand?
Prabhupāda: So to understand, you have to take the training, spiritual training. You have to understand the words which God wants to let you know about Him. These are spiritual training. Spiritual training means first of all you must have little faith that "I shall be intimately related with God." Unless you have got this faith, there is no question of spiritual training. If you simply remain satisfied, "God is great. Let Him remain at His home, let me remain at my home," that is not love. You must be eager to know God more and more intimately. Then the next stage is how to know about God unless you associate with persons who are simply busy in God's business. They have no other business. Just like we are training people, they are simply meant for God's business. They have no other business. How people will understand about God, how they will be benefited, they are simply planning in so many ways. So we have to associate with such persons who are convinced about God and trying to spread His knowledge throughout the whole world. You have to mix with, associate with them. First of all, you must have faith that "In this life I shall understand thoroughly about God." Then associate with persons who are busy with God's business. Then you act as they are acting. Then your misconception of material life will be finished. Then you'll have attachment. Then you'll have taste. In this way, you'll develop love of God.
Ali: I already have the faith.
Prabhupāda: That you have to increase. Simply the preliminary faith, that is very good, but unless that faith is increased more and more, then there is no progress.
Parivrājakācārya: There is danger of losing that faith.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you do not try to make progress and go forward progressively, then there is danger, whatever little faith you have got, that will diminish.
Hari-śauri: Your understanding of God tends to remain somewhat theoretical until one actually does something practical. Then it actually manifests as something solid, as a reality.
Prabhupāda: Theoretical and practical. Scientific knowledge means both: theoretical and practical. (knock on door; someone enters) Yes? If you like, you can sit down there. I have no objection if you sit down.
Jñānagamya: It is up to you, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No, I am... Everyone, you can... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is practical. They are fully engaged how to make progressive advance in love of Godhead. They have no other business.
Hari-śauri: Nowadays, generally, if someone is very religious and he wants to do some practical action, he usually acts on the social platform.
Prabhupāda: No, there, everywhere practical action. Just like all the Muhammadans, they go to the mosque, five times they offer prayer. That is good, very good.
Ali: Even to be attentive, to pay a lot of attention.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but that is also good. But if one is twenty-four-hours attentive, that is better.
Ali: But we tend to forget things that we don't see.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Hari-śauri: They don't see God, so the tendency is to forget.
Prabhupāda: Why you don't see God? When you see the picture of God, you don't see God? When you see the picture of your father, don't you see your father? 
Ali: Yes. If I see a picture.
Prabhupāda: You see or not? Suppose you have got picture of your father. When you see the picture, do you see your father or not?
Ali: Well, I see him physically.
Prabhupāda: Physical, everything is physical, subtle and gross. Suppose I am seeing you face to face. So I remember your face. When you are not here, I am thinking of you, I am not seeing you? This is also physical. I am seeing with the mind, I am seeing with the eyes. So what is the difference between eyes and mind? They are all physical. Why do you take only the eyes as physical, not the mind? There are physical elements—earth, water, air, fire, mind, intelligence, ego. They are all physical. So either see with your eyes or either see with your mind, it is physical.
Ali: Is the seeing important?
Prabhupāda: No, important. No, because if you have no eyes to see spiritual, you have to see physically, and they are all physical. Either you see with your eyes or touch with your hand or smell with your nose or lick up with your tongue, everything is physical.
Ali: I can feel the presence of a thing, dominating things.
Prabhupāda: Presence is there. Because just like a nice mango, so you cannot appreciate this mango simply by seeing. Natural tendency when you get a good mango, you smell. So why not see, sufficient? Why you smell? So these are all misconceptions. Different things have to be realized in different processes. Suppose you are a good singer, I see you. So I cannot appreciate simply by seeing you. I shall ask you, "All right, please sing one song." When I hear you, then I shall appreciate. Is it not? So the physical experience by different senses, gross and subtle senses.
Ali: Our senses are imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Senses are imperfect always. Therefore we have to develop the perfect senses. That is spiritual. Just like you are working with your hands, this is physical. But this hand is not working. The spirit soul within the body, he is working. As soon as he is out, what is the value of your hand? When the spirit soul is out of your body, then I am asking you, "Mr. Ali, Mr. Ali, get up." Who is hearing? Your ear is there, but you cannot hear—finished. Therefore the spiritual senses, that is real sense. Do you follow what I say? You have got ear, but when the spirit soul is out of your body, in spite of possessing this physical ear, you cannot hear.
Ali: I believe in this when..., because when I dream...
Prabhupāda: No, believe or not believe, these are facts, that physical senses are not absolute.
Ali: That's exactly what I mean. It's so obvious.
Prabhupāda: Physical senses not absolute; it is the spiritual senses that acts through the physical instrument and utilize it.
Ali: I feel man has already accepted his physical deficiency. I was just watching Olympic, and it seemed so pathetic, they were just trying to jump higher and higher, and they couldn't do it.
Prabhupāda: No, the physical senses are to be spiritualized. You cannot appreciate God by physical senses. But when your physical senses are purified and it is spiritualized, then you can.
Ali: That's exactly what I meant when I said that whatever I perceive...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is process, how to... Just like iron rod, it is iron rod, but if you put into the process, that means if you put into the fire, a time will come the iron rod will be red hot and it is fire. Similarly, if you engage your physical senses only... (aside:) Here is candle.
Jñānagamya: Any matches here?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you engage your physical senses in the service of the Lord, then the physical quality of the senses will be diminished or gone; your spiritual sense activities will begin. This is practical.
Ali: Are we closer to this practicality when we sleep?
Prabhupāda: Yes, when you are practiced. Sleep means what you do when you are awakened, the same thing you'll dream, that's all. Physical, I've told you there are two phases of senses: gross and subtle. When the gross senses are not working, the subtle senses work. Just like you dream, your mind is working. Although your hands and legs are taking rest, but mind is working. That is dreaming. So there are two phases of physical senses: gross and subtle. When the gross senses are stopped, the subtle senses continue to work. And when you are above even subtle senses, that is spiritual. Sometimes we misunderstand subtle senses are spiritual. No. Spiritual senses are different from the subtle senses.
Ali: These are the different stages.
Prabhupāda: Yes, of coming to the platform of spiritual senses. And when you come to the spiritual senses, then you can understand God, you can understand your relationship with God, you can talk with God, you can serve God, and so on, so on. The same example: Just like iron rod as it is, it is not able to burn anything, but when the iron rod is sufficiently hot, red-hot, touch anywhere, it will burn. Similarly, from this physical platform, if you begin these spiritual activities, then stage will come when you'll act only spiritually; there will be no more material activities. That is the stage of bhakti, that is real platform of bhakti, when one is acting only spiritually, there is no material activity. There is a process. So if we adopt that process, it is possible to come to the platform of spiritual sense activity. That is possible. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam ([[CC Madhya 19.170|CC Madhya 19.170]]). That is purification process. And when one is completely purified, then he acts with his spiritual senses.
Ali: Is it necessary to get to know the true self before knowing God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. God means spirit, supreme spirit. If you cannot understand what is spirit, then how you'll understand God? You must know what is spirit, what is matter, and when we have little understanding of the spirit, then we can make progress spiritually.
Ali: How does one get to know the true spirit?
Prabhupāda: By knowledge. By knowledge. Just like you are talking. How you are talking? Because the spirit soul is there within you. As soon as it is gone, you cannot talk. Your this body and everything will remain, but you cannot talk, you cannot understand; everything is finished. So this is matter. Body is matter, and the force which is helping you to talk, that is spirit. Now you have to understand it thoroughly.
Ali: Yes, I'm aware of that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ali: But I'm also aware that I'm very ignorant.
Prabhupāda: No, if you are aware of that thoroughly, then there is no question of ignorance.
Ali: But I feel that the presence of the spirit is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that everyone knows the distinction.
Ali: But, uh, the relativity...
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that requires the training and guidance of spiritual master. Therefore called spiritual master. You have to... Just like if you want to be an engineer, you must be trained under some engineer. Similarly, if you want to be trained up spiritually, then you must accept a spiritual master. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12): must, otherwise not possible. Training. So spiritual master trains with these books and explanation, practical demonstration. In this way the student makes progress spiritually.
Ali: I am a Muslim and I practice dervishism.
Prabhupāda: That, that... This is also a misunderstanding. You are thinking that you are a Muslim. Why?
Ali: It's just by normal definition.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because you are born of a Muslim father or a Muslim country.
Ali: No, no. In fact I didn't believe in religion at all.
Prabhupāda: Then you believe, that is also belief. You are believing something is this body, and when this body is left over, then you will believe something else.
Ali: For sure, my belief was disbelief.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, belief changes. Belief changes with the change of the body. Just like a man is thinking that "I am Iranian," "I am Indian," so long this body is Iranian or Indian or American. But the body will change. Then he'll think otherwise. So this belief is also temporary. It will be finished with the body. The body is temporary, and the belief, along with the body, that is also temporary. But I am eternal. That is to be understood. That is spiritual knowledge.
Ali: Sure, that is what I am practicing right now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre ([[BG 2.20|BG 2.20]]). The spirit soul, which is eternal, which is never lost, even by the annihilation of the body, we have to understand about that thing, that is spiritual knowledge. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson. First to understand what you are: you are not this body. This is spiritual knowledge. When one understands thoroughly that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then he is no more Hindu, Muhammadan or Christian or nothing. He's spirit soul, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā ([[BG 18.54|BG 18.54]]). That is called brahma-bhutaḥ. At that time, there is no such conception that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." Because he's not body. He's not body. That is pure understanding. And then spiritual knowledge begins. So long I shall think myself as Hindu, Muslim, Christian, there is no spiritual knowledge. That is material knowledge.
Ali: But this was just only a presentation of the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, presentation. We are everywhere in that platform. But we have to transcend this platform. Then we come to the spiritual platform. Then spiritual knowledge begins. And if we stick to this platform, then there is no spiritual knowledge. That is material knowledge, but try to understand spiritual knowledge. That is the position: to try to understand spiritual knowledge from material platform. But when you actually come to the spiritual platform, then spiritual knowledge is perfect. Just like another example, just like water. Theoretically you learn swimming. That is not swimming. You get into the water and practically learn swimming, then it is swimming. Theoretical knowledge, that you put yourself in the water, you move your hands like this, move your legs like this, that is good. But it will be... Just like in the airplane before starting, they give so much instruction. It is going on really. But when actually the airplane is danger, that will be practical. Is it not? They are giving so much instruction; who cares for it? (laughter) They're talking and people are hearing. But when it will be practically demonstrated, that is real life. So spiritual knowledge, understanding theoretically, it is little good, but when it is done practically, then it is reality.
Ali: The way I look at it, it's better to talk about God than to talk about...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. One must be serious, that "We are talking about God, so what is my God realization?" That is nice. Otherwise, if I go on life after life talking about God and there is no God realization... That is going on. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
:dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
:viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
:notpādayed ratiṁ yadi
:śrama eva hi kevalam
:([[SB 1.2.8|SB 1.2.8]])
We are talking of God, but instead of loving God, we are loving this body. So that is not practical. That is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. If one does not become enthused to love God, then simply talking about God is a waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is going on all over the world. Somebody's Hindu, somebody's Christian, somebody's Muhammadan; they are going to the church, they are going to the mosque, they are going to the temple; everything is going on. But when you ask, "Whether you love God or dog?" he'll say, "I love dog." Practically we see. Everyone is keeping a dog, very favorite pet. And in church, they'll talk of God, but practically they love the dog. Is it not? This is going on, in the name of religion, that's all. Therefore Bhāgavata says it is simply a waste of time. What is the use of talking God? If by talking of God perpetually you are developing your love for dog, then what is the use? Śrama eva hi kevalam. It is simply waste of time. These are all discussed. Regularly going to the church, regularly going to the mosque or temple, but the love is for material things, not for God. How I get money, how I get motorcar, how I get dog, how I get nice wife, how I get nice..., the love is here. The example is given, just like a vulture. The vulture goes very, very high, four miles, five miles up. But his business is to find out "Where there is a corpse? Where there is a corpse?" Very highly elevated, but business is to find out a dead body. And as soon as he finds it... (hand motion indicating swooping down) So this is going on. Very religious, very regularly performing religious ceremonies, rituals, but the business is "Where is a corpse? Come on, here is some sense gratification." This is going on. If you are talking of God, then you must love God. That is progress. But there is no love of God, there is love of something else, so what is the use of talking about? Hmm? What do you think? Is it not waste of time?
Parivrājakācārya: We can always tell by what people are serving, what they really are loving. If they are serving just their body, then no matter what they are saying, we know...
Prabhupāda: That is śrama eva hi kevalam ([[SB 1.2.8|SB 1.2.8]]). Officially, "God, God, God," but result is dog. Love is there. Love is... That is natural. I want to love. Everyone wants to love. But the..., unless he loves God, he'll never be happy. So simply talking of love, and if the love is simply transferred to dog, then where is the love of God? So such kind of talking is called śrama eva hi kevalam. It is simply waste of time and energy. You must practically come to the platform how to love God. So it is a great science, and it is available for everyone to understand and act. It is a great science. One can take advantage. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a sectarian religious movement, no. It is a science, how to understand God, how to love Him.
Ali: Shouldn't there be a balance between physical existence and spiritual existence? Like between body and spirit?
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, you must have spiritual understanding, then spiritual study. If you have no spiritual understanding, then why spiritual study? All these scientists, they are trying to understand the spirit soul by material, on material platform. Therefore they are being misled. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, to distinguish between matter and spirit it is negatively described: nainaṁ chindanti śāstrāṇi. (aside:) Find out. The spirit soul is there which cannot be cut into pieces by any instrument.
Hari-śauri: Nainaṁ chindanti śāstrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ ([[BG 2.23|BG 2.23]]).
Prabhupāda: Ah, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Pāvakaḥ means fire. It is never burned into the fire. It is never cut into pieces with instrument or any weapon. So if you study these two points, anything you take, it can be cut into pieces, within our physical experience. And anything within our physical experience, it can be burned. Even the iron, so hard, it can be burned and liquidified by proper temperature. Even stone, it can be burned, it can be liquidified. The glass, glass is nothing but liquidified stone, everyone knows it. Purified by chemicals, that's all. Then?
Hari-śauri: Na cainaṁ kledayanty āpo.
Prabhupāda: Anything physical, it can be moistened. You keep in the water, it will be soft. Na kledayanty? Āpo?
Hari-śauri: Na śoṣayati mārutaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Mārutaḥ. And evaporation. Even the ocean can be evaporated by the air. So we have got this experience of the five or eight elements. They are physical because they are subjected to be cut into pieces, to be burned into fire, to be moistened, to be evaporated. But it is..., soul is not affected. Then we have to think of "What is that?" Therefore these scientists, they are puzzled. When the soul goes out of the body, they cannot imagine what thing is missing that the body is dead. Because they have physical ideas. But it is not physical. So everything is described. We have to study thoroughly and apply our brain. The brain must be sharp and finer tissues. Then spiritual understanding will be there. With dull brain, physical brain, we cannot understand. That is not possible. Therefore to spiritualize the brain, the senses, requires a process. Just like to keep a vegetable in frozen condition, it requires a process. Similarly, we have to undergo a process to come to this spiritual platform, to understand the spirit soul, the supreme being, God, and the relationship and the activities. We must adopt the process. And those who are adopting the process, they are making progress. Practical. 
So it is not impractical. Thousands of these Europeans and Americans, they, say a few years ago, four, five years ago—say utmost ten years ago—they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God. But now you ask them, they will explain. They are not foolish, they are not uneducated. So unless they are situated in the spiritual platform, how they are sticking? So there is process, and the process is practical. Anyone who adopts this process, he'll be able to understand. The process is meant for human being. Any human being who will adopt this process will understand. So ask any one of them, these European, American boys, "Are you sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness sentimentally or understanding?" Ask them. They will explain, "Yes, understanding." Not blindly. Blindly one cannot stick—that is not possible. So there is God, there is possibility to come in touch with God, there is possibility to serve Him directly, to see Him face to face, if we adopt the process. 
(long pause)
Ali: What I'm practicing now is that I'm battling against my nafs—it's the commanding self, as it's known in dervishism. And it amazes me, the way it acts, so mischievous, so dishonest, so many faces that I can only catch out very few, very few. It's always a bit late. After anger, I recognize the presence of anger.
Prabhupāda: Yes, any process you adopt, it doesn't matter, provided it helps you to the platform of loving God. That is approved. Because without coming to the platform of loving God, you cannot be satisfied. That is not possible. So you can adopt any process, it doesn't matter, if it brings you to the platform of loving God. Then you'll be happy. We do not say that this process is bona fide, that process is not bona fide. We say any process you adopt, it doesn't matter, if it helps you to bring to the platform of loving God.
Ali: True, because the road is the same, the goal is the same.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our philosophy. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhakti... ([[SB 1.2.6|SB 1.2.6]]). Because unless you come to the platform of loving God, then you cannot be happy. And so long we have got the tendency to love something other than God, then we shall not be happy. That is the test.
Ali: What is the purpose of this internal dialogue? 
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Ali: The purpose of this internal dialogue. We talk to ourselves all the time. We can't be silent.
Prabhupāda: You talk with whom? There must be second person. When you talk, you are one person, and another person must be there. Who is that other person? With whom you talk?
Ali: With the self.
Prabhupāda: Then you are lunatic. Just like a lunatic, he talks alone.
Ali: No, this is silent talk, like the mind, you can't stop.
Prabhupāda: No, the idea is when you talk of talking, there must be two. So self, then you have to admit the self becomes two, otherwise there is no talking. This is good, that one is Superself, another is subordinate self. So when the subordinate self is able to talk with the Superself, then he gets right direction, his life is very successful.
Ali: Is the Superself a spirit?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you say "self," it is spirit. Spirit—the Supreme Spirit, and the subordinate spirit. The Supreme Being and the subordinate being. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. (aside:) You find out this verse:
:sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
:mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
:vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
:vedānta kṛd veda vid eva cāham
:([[BG 15.15|BG 15.15]])
Hari-śauri: "I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me comes remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness."
Prabhupāda: The Supreme Being, the Supreme Self, is situated in everyone's heart. That is being explained. Go on.
Hari-śauri: "By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas." Purport?
Prabhupāda: Yes, purport. Yes.
Hari-śauri: Purport: "The Supreme Lord is situated as Paramātmā in everyone's heart, and it is from Him that all activities are initiated. The living entity forgets everything of his past life, but he has to act according to the direction of the Supreme Lord, who is witness to all his work. Therefore he begins his work according to his past deeds. Required knowledge is supplied to him, and remembrance is given to him, and he forgets, also, about his past life. Thus, the Lord is not only all-pervading, He is also localized in every individual heart. He awards the different fruitive results. He is not only worshipable as the impersonal Brahman, the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the localized Paramātmā, but as the form of the incarnation of the Vedas as well. The Vedas give the right direction to the people so that they can properly mold their lives and come back to Godhead, back to home. The Vedas offer knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa in His incarnation as Vyāsadeva is the compiler of the Vedānta-sūtra. The commentation on the Vedānta-sūtra by Vyāsadeva in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives the real understanding of Vedānta-sūtra. The Supreme Lord is so full that for the deliverance of the conditioned soul He is the supplier and digester of foodstuff, the witness of his activity, the giver of knowledge in the form of Vedas and, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the teacher of the Bhagavad-gītā. He is worshipable by the conditioned soul. Thus God is all-good; God is all-merciful.
"Antaḥ-praviṣṭaḥ śāstā janānām. The living entity forgets as soon as he quits his present body, but he begins his work again, initiated by the Supreme Lord. Although he forgets, the Lord gives him the intelligence to renew his work where he ended in his last life. So not only does a living entity enjoy or suffer in this world according to the dictation from the Supreme Lord situated locally in the heart, but he receives the opportunity to understand the Vedas from Him. If one is serious to understand the Vedic knowledge, then Kṛṣṇa gives the required intelligence. Why does He present the Vedic knowledge for understanding? Because a living entity individually needs to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedic literature confirms this: yo 'sau sarvair vedair gīyate. In all Vedic literature, beginning from the four Vedas, Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads and Purāṇas, the glories of the Supreme Lord are celebrated. By performing Vedic rituals, discussing the Vedic philosophy and worshiping the Lord in devotional service, He is attained. Therefore the purpose of the Vedas is to understand Kṛṣṇa. The Vedas give us direction to understand Kṛṣṇa and the process of understanding. The ultimate goal is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Vedānta-sūtra confirms this in the following words: tat tu samanvayāt. One can attain perfection by understanding Vedic literature, and one can understand his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead by performing the different processes. Thus one can approach Him and at the end attain the supreme goal, who is no other than the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In this verse, however, the purpose of the Vedas, the understanding of the Vedas and the goal the Vedas are clearly defined."
Prabhupāda: Veda means the book of knowledge. So any book of knowledge which gives you direction how to understand God and how to love Him, that is perfect.
Ali: But this knowledge cannot be attained unless we are aware of the spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise... Any knowledge you have to acquire. Either from the Supersoul within yourself or His representative outside, you have to learn it.
Ali: Why have we chosen this? This seems so irrelevant and...
Prabhupāda: Rituals are meant for the neophytes, who are given education to begin with. But if he's stuck up with rituals, do not make any further progress, then his progress is checked. You have to go, progress, more progress. Instead of having no sense of God, they, if it is prescribed that "Go to the mosque and pray to God, five times," that is good, ritualistic. At least you're accepting, "There is God, I must offer." Similarly... This is Muslim process. Hindu process, they say, "Go to the temple and see God." And this Christian, "Go to the church and offer..." The subject matter is the same—accept God. Accept God. But the ultimate, shall we say, goal is not only accept God... They go to God for some material benefit, because they have no other idea. Like the Christians say, "O God, give us our daily bread." I do not know what the Muhammadans say in the prayer. Hindus also, they go to God, "Sir, I am very poor. Give me some money," or "I am diseased. Please cure me." 
So these things are the same in different ways according to country and customs. But it is good because they have approached God. That much is good. They are accepting there is God. That much is good. But when he makes further progress, that there is God, what kind of person He is, what is His business, then you make further progress. So these, for the neophyte, these ritualistic formula is good, but he must make further progress. Instead of godlessness, these processes are better. Let him go to the mosque, let him go to the temple, let him go to the church. At least, let him maintain the idea of God. That is ritualistic. Then there is further progress. One must be interested. But people are losing interest even in the neophyte stage. They're becoming godless. That is going on. So that is very dangerous. Instead of becoming godless, if somebody approaches God—it doesn't matter in some way, some ritual—it is better than this atheist class of men. At least they are accepting God. And if they offer prayers sincerely, God is there within your heart, He'll gradually reveal. The more you become purified, the more He reveals. Then He'll talk with you.
So everything depends on the sincerity and seriousness. And if we take these ritualistic ceremonies, "Now I've gone to church or mosque, I have gone to temple, finish. Now let me do whatever I like," then there is no progress. Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is simply waste of time. That is going on practically. He doesn't want to see "How much progress I have made in the matter of loving God?" That he does not inquire. He takes God as order supplier. So "He's supplying my order, that's nice." He'll never learn to supply the order of God. Neither he will come any stage on that platform. The highest stage is to supply the order of God, not make God my order supplier. That is neophyte stage. Just like a small child, he simply wants to take supply from the father. But when the child is grown up and he's educated, he wants to see "How I can supply the order of parents." That is good stage. "My parents have taken so much pain to raise me. Now I am educated, now they are old man..." Sentiment, I am speaking, this family sentiment. "I must see my..." (Atreya Ṛṣi enters) Come on. The whole day. That is the stage of love, that "I have taken supplies from my father so long, now I must supply the order of the father." That is nice. That is the stage of love. "I'll not take. I have taken so much, sufficiently. Now I'll not take anything from my parents; I shall simply supply what they want." That is good son, loving son. That is perfection of spiritual or religious life, when we love God and we are prepared to sacrifice anything for God. That is perfection. So, whole day you were engaged?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Kṛṣṇa's mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Now here is love of God. Whole day he was engaged to serve God. That is love.
Atreya Ṛṣi: We have a nice building for Kṛṣṇa. It's very nice.
Prabhupāda: Where it is?
Atreya Ṛṣi: It is on the middle of the city. It is the one I was explaining to you the other day. So we went to the notary, and it takes a long time, because it is a lot of red tape. And also the lights went off. The lights went off in the middle of writing the agreement. So now we have the agreement, by your grace, it will be nice. If you feel good, maybe you can visit it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tomorrow morning I'll go?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Well, I would like it when traffic is low, because it's in the city.
Prabhupāda: When it is, traffic is...?
Atreya Ṛṣi: It is in the heart of the city.
Prabhupāda: No, when the traffic will be low?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Thursday is very good; otherwise... What do you suggest? It should be both cool... I mean they're living there; it's not finished
Hari-śauri: We can't go early in the morning? Six o'clock?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Six o'clock the traffic's heavy.
Hari-śauri: Is it? Six o'clock. He says there's a lot of traffic even at six in the morning.
Prabhupāda: Morning?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Traffic is heavy. Iranians start early. Some start at six-thirty. 
Prabhupāda: Six-thirty.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. This is a very busy city. Some people work two, three shifts.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that I can understand. Always traffic I see.
Dayānanda: But there is no work on Thursday.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Thursday it is very easy. We can go very fast and come back very fast. I have to call...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Make arrangement.
Nava-yauvana: Prabhupāda, some people confuse the chanting with the...
Prabhupāda: Every people must be confused, because he has no training. Not "some people." You say "all people," then it is all right.
Atreya Ṛṣi: This is one sort of confusion that he wants to explain.
Prabhupāda: You should know everyone is confused. If you have got capacity, then you make him peaceful. Otherwise, you expect everyone is confused. It is a different life. Unless one is very, very fortunate, he cannot understand it. So confusion is natural. There is not the question of some people or other; everyone is confused. They do not know what is spiritual life, what is spirit. Everyone is thinking, "I am this body." That's all. So how he'll not be confused? The very beginning is confusion. So long one is confused with this bodily conception of life, he's called in the śāstra animal. The animal is always confused. He does not know what is life, what is aim.
:yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
:sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijyadhīḥ
:yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
:janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
:([[SB 10.84.13|SB 10.84.13]])
Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life, he's confused like the animals—cows and asses. That is the general condition. So you should not be surprised to see somebody confused. Because he's in bodily concept of life. Unless he overcomes the bodily concept of life, he'll remain confused, because he's accepting something which is not. He's practically seeing that he's not body, still he's thinking, "I am this body." This is confusion. Practically he's seeing daily that the body is there and the spirit soul left the body, now the body has no value. Everyone knows it. Still, he's thinking, "I am this body." How much foolish he is. That is confusion. He knows that. He practically sees every day, "My father is gone." "Why your father is gone? He's lying there." "No, no, my father is gone." He's experienced. His father is gone, his brother is gone, his relatives gone, and still he thinks, "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." This is confusion. So it requires little advancement of knowledge to get out of this confusion. But he is practically keeping himself in this confusion. So not somebody, but everybody.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Practically material life is very confusing, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is confusion.
Atreya Ṛṣi: One is thinking that one can enjoy and goes after something, and it is not there. Everybody's trying to grab for themselves. It's very confusing.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the śāstra says, yenātmā suprasīdati. 
:sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
:yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
:ahaituky apratihatā
:yenātmā suprasīdati
:([[SB 1.2.6|SB 1.2.6]])
He is..., everyone is trying to become happy, wants to love somebody, but everything is misplaced. So as long as this activity will be misplaced, he'll never become happy. When it is properly placed, then he'll be happy. The confusion is there. The easiest process is recommended in this age, to chant the holy name of the Lord. Then you'll be gradually purified and you'll understand. You'll be out of confusion. This very easy thing. It is not..., we are not recommending that you simply chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the name of God, but if you think that "Kṛṣṇa is Indian name or Hindu name. Why shall I chant it?" no, you have got your God's name, so you chant that. You chant that. We recommend that you chant. God's name must be. Then you'll be purified.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Authorized name of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, name means authorized. Name means authorized. Not fictitious. If you chant fictitious name, that will not be effective. But if you chant real name of God, then you'll be purified. So if you have got name of God, chant it; there is no question of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You chant. If you have got the name, real name of God, chant it. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ ([[CC Antya 20.16|CC Antya 20.16]]). If God is unlimited, therefore He must have unlimited names also. But the name must be God's name. Then you chant, you'll be purified. So there is no question of sectarianism in this movement. We are recommending that you chant the holy name of the Lord. Do it. Is there any objection? Suppose you say that you are Muhammadan. If I say "You chant the holy name of God," have you got any objection?
Ali: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You have got objection?
Atreya Ṛṣi: (explains to Ali what was being asked)
Ali: Oh, no, no. Sorry. Chanting, yes, I do chant myself.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all. We are preaching this. We don't say that you become one of us. You chant the holy name of the Lord, that's all.
Ali: There's no such thing as "one of us," "one of you," anyway, because the thing is the same. If one is true, then the whole thing is..., there is no difference.
Prabhupāda: Then when you are purified, you'll understand what is God, what God wants you to do, what is your relationship with God, so on, so on, so on.
Atreya Ṛṣi: And other devotees of God, you will understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. To understand God means to understand everything.
Ali: Because everything is God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). This is Vedic instruction. If you simply understand God, then you understand everything. Therefore God says, janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ ([[BG 4.9|BG 4.9]]): "If anyone understands Me factually, then," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti ([[BG 4.9|BG 4.9]]), "then after giving up this body, he's not going to accept any more material body. He comes to Me." So simply try to understand God. And that is possible simply by chanting the holy name of God. Very easy. It doesn't matter, either you are Iranian or Indian or..., chant the name of, holy name of God. I think there should (not) be any objection for this movement. Eh? What do you think? That's all. We are simply pleading, "My dear sir, please chant the holy name of God." Who will have any objection? Nobody will have any. Do it. There is no confusion. If you are confused, chant the holy name of God, you'll be out of confusion. Tell them like that. Everyone should join with us and preach this cult. This is not a cult; this is a science, that you chant the holy name of God, that's all. (indistinct background talking) You have seen that house? Dayānanda was not with you? Dayānanda?
Atreya Ṛṣi: It happened very quickly this time. We have been looking for a year, over a year. Many hundreds of houses we have seen. But this time, by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa's mercy.
Atreya Ṛṣi: You will see it.
Prabhupāda: So make arrangement on Thursday. At any time, we shall go. That's all right.
Atreya Ṛṣi: It is both nice location and a nice small house. We can also get a bigger one nearby, and a bigger one. We can take the whole city.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Later on. Later on. No, we can member anyone, because we are proposing very pure thing: "You chant the holy name of God." Who will object?
Atreya Ṛṣi: You should let Dayānanda Prabhu and I live a thousand years. We will buy the whole city.
Hari-śauri: (entering) Puffed rice.
Prabhupāda: I shall go there. I am going. 
Devotees: Jaya. (devotees offer obeisances) 
Prabhupāda: So thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give this one garland to this boy and another to Atreya Ṛṣi. (end)

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760705 - Conversation B - Washington D.C.

2013-11-24T11:40:12Z

ArnabS: Created page with '{{CV_Header|{{PAGENAME}}}} <div class="code">760705R2-WASHINGTON DC</div> Dr. Shaligram Shukla: There are certain hymns in Vedas which are so personal and (indistinct). And …'

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<div class="code">760705R2-WASHINGTON DC</div>

Dr. Shaligram Shukla: There are certain hymns in Vedas which are so personal and (indistinct). And I don't find anything in Vedas impersonal. As a matter of fact...
Prabhupāda: No, no, impersonal there is. Impersonal means negation of this material thing. Neti neti, "Not this." Impersonal means not this material person. That is impersonal. Kṛṣṇa is person, but in order to convince people that He's person but not a material person, the material things have to be negated. That is Upaniṣad. Just to evade the material conception of the Absolute. But ultimately He's person. Brahmaṇo 'ham pratiṣṭhā ([[BG 14.27|BG 14.27]]). Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣu (Bs. 5.40). These things are there. So in order to substantiate the Supreme Person as completely spiritual, the material conception of personality is rejected. That is impersonal. Nirguṇa means He has no material qualities. Bhakta-vatsala. Kṛṣṇa is bhakta-vatsala. That is not material quality, that is spiritual quality. So negation of material understanding is impersonal. But when one is fully in awareness of Kṛṣṇa, His spiritual identity, then again He's person.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda gave the example this morning that something which is personal can speak, just like Kṛṣṇa spoke Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa's described in Bhagavad-gītā as the Supreme. But we don't have any experience of something impersonal like the sky speaking to us. So if the Supreme is impersonal, how is it that the Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by Him?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Māyāvādīs like Swami Vivekananda, he questions, "Who was Lord Kṛṣṇa?" Was Kṛṣṇa King of Dvārakā or anybody else? He don't know even that.
Prabhupāda: He's a fool. He does not know, therefore other does not know. It is not the fact. He's a fool. He does not know.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: He does not know. He said that Gītā is karma-yoga, and writes volumes and volumes...
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is his foolishness. Gītā is completely bhakti-yoga. Sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja ([[BG 18.66|BG 18.66]]). Everything is finished. And what is karma-yoga? What is karma-yoga?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: According to these Māyāvādīs...
Prabhupāda: Not according, according to Bhagavad-gītā.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: According to Bhagavad-gītā, all the karma should be done for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: For Kṛṣṇa, yes. So that is bhakti-yoga. Yat karoṣi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. That is bhakti. Karma-yoga means bhakti. That is the difficulty, that these Māyāvādīs, they have killed India's Vedic civilization. Now India is atheist. Very tragic position.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: What are your plans for India? Because I was in India...
Prabhupāda: We are pushing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being appreciated. It will take some time. Because so much mischievous activities have been done by the Māyāvādīs, to counteract, it will take some time. They are simply mischievous. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has rejected them. Māyāvādī bhāṣya sunile haya sarva-nāśa ([[CC Madhya 6.169|CC Madhya 6.169]]). If one takes the Māyāvādī version of the śāstras, then his spiritual life is finished. He becomes atheist. His spiritual life is finished. Now what is the contribution? You talked about Vivekananda. What is his contribution?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Nothing. He accomplished nothing.
Prabhupāda: Nothing. Simply he has taught the sannyāsīs to eat meat. That is his contribution. 
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: The Western (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: He says there is no harm eating meat. 
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: As long as it's not his meat.
Prabhupāda: This is going on. Nārāyaṇa has become daridra. Daridra-nārāyaṇa, these are Vivekananda's contribution. And spoiled India's spiritual tradition. He has created one illiterate priest as God. That is his contribution, if you become honest to understand. So it will take some time to counteract all these mischievous activities. 
Rūpānuga: You will do it, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Simply mischievous.
Devotee (1): How is it that these men are so attractive to the Indian people?
Prabhupāda: They have become fools. Fool's paradise, they have been made.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Because Vivekananda became very popular in America, and...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Who became popular in America?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Vivekananda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, he didn't. That's their propaganda.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: That's propaganda, yes, but...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I never heard of Vivekananda until I went to Bengal.
Devotee (1): The Vedanta Society was formed there...
Prabhupāda: No, no, the other day we spoke that... Now in Vṛndāvana, you know, we have got our temple. So the Ramakrishna Mission, they have got their temple also. In our temple, thousands and thousands of these Americans came, and not a single one went there. If they had preached anything, then why these American boys and girls are not interested, "Let us see where the Ramakrishna Mission stays"? They do not know even. There are many present here who went to Vṛndāvana, and none of them were interested to see. Why? If there was any propaganda... This is practical proof. Why none of them were interested, "Oh, here is also Ramakrishna Mandir, let us go here"? Nodody. Boliya, Sukla. Is it practical?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Yes, of course. Of course, even in India I don't think Vivekananda is that popular. It's localized within one area, and people probably just had no good books to read, and they got some of his writings. I know my father brought some books and...
Prabhupāda: So where is your home?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: It's in Benares, Kāśī. So there were some books by Vivekananda. And he is emotionally against Vivekananda, so that's a little too much perhaps. So he brought those books so that I could read them, I was curious. And I said, "When you are through, give it to your cook." (laughter) That's the only functional use of those books.
Prabhupāda: So burning it in the fire?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Yes, he said so that we can make our cāpāṭis, to have some use of those things. (laughter) And Kṛṣṇa, of course, there's hardly a village in India where, whether knowingly or unknowingly, people are not aware of this Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: In India they know, everyone. They observe Janmāṣṭamī.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Kṛṣṇa paraṁ bhajami. In India everybody knows Kṛṣṇa, even the illiterate person, but nobody knows Vivekananda. Only a few people, they started a Vedanta Society. 
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Of course Veda is a very serious literature, it's not just anybody can get into that, it's a very..., it's a disciplic...
Prabhupāda: Brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumādbhir viniścitaiḥ ([[BG 13.5|BG 13.5]]). Very.... Nyāya-praṣṭhāna. But Vedānta-sūtra is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore our Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, they did not write any comment on the Vedānta-sūtra. They accept Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the real bhāṣya. But when the Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇavas are challenged that "You have no Vedānta-sūtra bhāṣya, therefore you cannot be accepted as transcendental party," so Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana immediately gave Govinda-bhāṣya on Vedānta. Our Gosvāmīs, they did not write, because they knew Brahma-sūtra bhāṣya, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Indian devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was also a victim of this Vivekananda philosophy for a long time, and my father was very against.
Prabhupāda: What is the philosophy?
Indian devotee: There is no philosophy, but I was... It was amusing... My father all the time was telling me to do some devotional service, and I was... No, if I would not do it, I would not get my breakfast. So I had to do it. Anyway. But now you have your books, and they have just like really given me proper guidance.
Indian lady: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I read Ramakrishna when I was fifteen years old, and I became so restless and anxious for guru, and I began to concentrate so much, and I become so God conscious. But I don't know what happened to me by reading Ramakrishna, and I was thinking I should have guru (indistinct), I should have some discipline, spiritual discipline. And then I heard, and he gave me so much inspiration. So I don't know. I can't criticize anyone. I don't know what's wrong with me.
Prabhupāda: Eh? (devotees laugh) What is the question?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The question is that she was so much inspired when she was very young, she read some words by Ramakrishna.
Prabhupāda: What was the particular thing?
Indian lady: Life. His life. I did not read the philosophy, but his life.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Then she started looking for guru. She became very aware of the need for a guru.
Indian lady: And that's why I found you. 
(laughter)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Many of us who have similar experiences like that. Naturally, we weren't always so fortunate that we first came in contact with Śrīla Prabhupāda's books or his disciples, like this. But somehow or another we weren't satisfied by anything, because there was some gap, some void, some missing information that didn't satisfy us.
Prabhupāda: Which portion appealed to you in Ramakrishna's life? 
Indian lady: Well, his life, his discipline.
Prabhupāda: Which portion?
Indian lady: (indistinct) He was very disciplined, like in the relationship with his wife. And there was no sense gratification in his life. When he used to be married he wrote devotional songs, he used to practice to sing, he used to chant, and he used to cry.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Of course, first we were talking about Vivekananda, not Ramakrishna. They are two different personalities and two different paths.
Indian lady: Yes, but I thought about Ramakrishna... Many times I get devotees who say to me, "Oh, he's a rascal." I say, "I don't know, I can't say rascal." I don't read him, but he inspired me so much. And I don't know what's wrong. Am I wrong or foolish or not? Everybody has (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Now, what is the philosophy of Ramakrishna?
Indian lady: I did not read it. He does not say that Kṛṣṇa is God, so I didn't read it. And I was very young at that time.
Prabhupāda: If you want to discuss, there is points of discussion. (laughs) Yes. 
(laughter)
He worshiped Kālī, is it not? Everyone knows it. Do you know that? And by worshiping he became God. Do you agree to that?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: No. He said, "I'm Rāma and Kṛṣṇa both."
Prabhupāda: But he realized by worshiping Kālī. (laughter)
Devotee: He dressed up as Rādhārāṇī, too.
Prabhupāda: So do you agree to that? Then how you appreciate it? 
Indian lady: No, I don't appreciate it.
(laughter) (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. And it is a common sense. (Suklaji... Hindi) He, later on, he became God by worshiping Kālī, is it not?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Yes. He was cursed by Kālī.
Prabhupāda: No, he was a big worshiper of Kālī. And he was meat-eater also, Mā Kālī's prasāda, that unless one eats that prasādam he cannot become a devotee. So this was his position, that he worshiped Kālī and later on by worshiping Kālī... His picture is there, Mother Kālī's embracing. And he also preached yata mata tata pat: "Whatever path you take, accept, that is all right." Is it not? So do you think it is all right? He worshiped Kālī and he said, yata mata tata pat. You agree to this? 
Indian lady: No.
Prabhupāda: Now, Ramakrishna says yata mata tata pat. And Kṛṣṇa says... He became Ramakrishna, identifying himself with Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa said mam ekam, and now he's becoming Kṛṣṇa, he says yata mata tata pat. Just see. Boliya Sukla. When he's actual Kṛṣṇa, he says mām ekam, and when he became imitation Kṛṣṇa, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa has changed his views. 
(laughter) 
Just see, this foolishness is going on.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Well, it's documented that he was kind of deranged, of a deranged mind. 
(laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the proof.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Yes, because he was, when he was thirteen or seventeen he was walking, he was going from one village to another village through the paddy fields, and the clouds were very thick, and thunder and lightning, and as he writes that he saw Kālī. And I have a friend in England, Colin Wilson, who has done some work on Ramakrishna, he believes that at that very moment...
Prabhupāda: These are miracles, that's all. 
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Yes, that miracle. It changes...
Prabhupāda: It has no value. People are after miracles. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante 'nya-devatāḥ ([[BG 7.20|BG 7.20]]). Those who are worshipers of other demigods, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ. Hṛta-jñānāḥ, Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives his comment, hṛta-jñānāḥ naṣṭa buddhayaḥ: one who has lost his intelligence. So by worshiping the demigod Kālī he is to be considered as hṛta-jñānāḥ, one who has lost his intelligence—and he becomes God. Is it possible? One who has lost his intelligence, he becomes God, with that lost intelligence. And this is the proof that on account of lost intelligence, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam. Sarva dharmān parityajya ([[BG 18.66|BG 18.66]]). And when he became Ramakrishna, same Kṛṣṇa is speaking, no: yata mata tata pat. So he has changed his view. We have to accept this? And how he gave up his wife, that's a long history, I don't wish to discuss. We know everything. 
Indian lady: I don't believe it. Actually I'm very impressed with Mīrabāi. 
Prabhupāda: So we cannot accept something which is beyond the instruction of śāstra. 
:yaḥ śāstra vidhim utsṛjya
:vartate kāma kārataḥ
:na sa siddhim avāpnoti
:na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim
:([[BG 16.23|BG 16.23]])
If you have no knowledge of the śāstra, then you'll never be successful in your spiritual life, what to speak of happiness and liberation. It is not possible.
Indian lady: Is Mīrabāi Lord Caitanya's disciple?
Prabhupāda: I'm talking of this Ramakrishna particularly. There is no śāstra-siddha. Whimsical, sentiment, that's all. So far his yata mata tata pat is concerned, at last he proposed, "Now I shall worship according to the Muhammadan process. So I have to eat cow's flesh." So he was living in that temple... What is that temple in Calcutta? 
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Dakshineswari. 
Prabhupāda: Ah, Dakshineswari. So the temple was owned by one big zamindar. So because it is temple, he cannot take... Of course, in that temple Kālī was there. So they were taking fish and flesh. That was not objectionable. But he, when he wanted to take cow's flesh, so he wanted permission from proprietor, "Sir, I shall now practice according to Muhammadan system. So I take cow's flesh. So I want your permission." So he said, "Sir, I've given you so much licenses, but if you ask this, then I'll ask you to go out. I cannot give you this permission." Then he stopped Muhammadan way of worship. This is whimsical.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: We have another mentally retarded person in India, like Sai Baba. He was the same...
Prabhupāda: Yes, magic.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have that newspaper from South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway, we are not after all this magic. We are laymen. We do not want this magic, neither we want to show magic. We simply, as canvasser of Kṛṣṇa, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "Sir, Kṛṣṇa says like this, you do like that," that's all. If you like, you can do; otherwise let us do our own business. We don't show any magic, neither we speak anything which is not in the Bhagavad-gītā. If there is little success, it is due to this secret, that's all. Boliya Sukla (Bengali). Kṛṣṇa says that He is Supreme, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat ([[BG 7.7|BG 7.7]]). So we are preaching, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme," that's all.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Therefore you are doing so with tremendous success.
Prabhupāda: Yes, people say that "Swāmījī, you have done wonder, you have..." so on, so on, so on. But I do not know what is wonder. I know it is certain that I have not adulterated. That much I know. But I do not know how to play wonders. That I do not know. But I am certain that I have not adulterated what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. And I study everything by the crucial test of Kṛṣṇa's teaching. That's all. Kṛṣṇa says,
:na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
:prapadyante narādhamāḥ
:māyayāpahṛta jñānā
:āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
:([[BG 7.15|BG 7.15]])
As soon as we see that somebody is not Kṛṣṇa conscious or Kṛṣṇa's devotee, I take him immediately he's a duṣkṛtina, he's a mūḍha, he's a narādhama. "Oh, he's educated!" No, māyāyapahṛta-jñānā. Finish. Our study finish. We take it immediately that here is a māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's all. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because he denies to accept Kṛṣṇa, he must be within this group: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. So people will be sorry or happy, we take them like that, that "Here is a duṣkṛtina," that's all.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Tulasi dāsa has also said (Bengali) that who is not God..., Kṛṣṇa conscious, you should behave them like your enemy.
Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that asat-saṅga tyāga vaiṣṇava ācāra ([[CC Madhya 22.87|CC Madhya 22.87]]). The Vaiṣṇava's behavior is to give up bad company. So who is bad? Next question will be that "I have to give up the bad company. Who is bad?" Then He says, next line: asat stri saṅgī 'kṛṣṇabhakta' āra. Two words. Those who are too much attached to woman and those who are not devotee of Kṛṣṇa, they are bad. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says give up the company of these two bad men, that's all. That is Vaiṣṇava. So everything is there. If you simply follow with sincerity, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased. As Arjuna says, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava ([[BG 18.73|BG 18.73]])." That's all. He becomes perfect. And Kṛṣṇa immediately accepts, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ ([[BG 18.69|BG 18.69]]). He becomes immediately recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati ([[BG 18.68|BG 18.68]]). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ. Priya-kṛttamaḥ. Priya-kṛttamaḥ, superlative. Priya-kṛt, priya-kṛtara, priya-kṛttamaḥ. So let us follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, our life will be perfect. That is a fact. Don't divert your attention here and there.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were a chemist before, but I think you are the greatest alchemist to have taken so many leaden souls and turned them into golden Vaiṣṇavas. Perhaps you can even transform me, by your mercy.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is giving us facilities to preach this cult. Everywhere we have got very, very palatial buildings to accommodate devotees. Now we have got here a very nice place, accommodate devotees. Everywhere we have got. In Bombay we are getting the best temple in India. We are spending crores of rupees; Kṛṣṇa is giving us money. So I started the business with forty rupees. (laughter) That was also not American currency. They allowed me to bring forty rupees. So when I was getting off the ship I asked the captain, "I have brought these forty rupees, which will not be accepted here, so you take." At that time three books I had, the first, second and third Bhāgavata. So I asked him that "You purchase. Give me some dollars." So he asked, "What is the price?" "Sixteen dollars." So he gave me twenty dollars, and I delivered them. With that twenty dollars I got down on the land of America, and that forty rupees. So I did not know where to go, where to stay. 
So Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facilities, and these American boys are helping. I think those who are Indians in this..., they should join this movement sincerely and preach more vigorously. People will be benefited. This is real substance. Otherwise people are being misguided, so many things going on, Transcendental meditation, the..., what is called? 
Devotee: Maharishi?
Prabhupāda: No, another. So many. Actually, speaking for the last at least two hundred years, many svāmīs, people, came here, but not a single person was converted to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is history. What do you think, Sukla? You have studied. So many svāmīs, yogīs, scholars came, and they spoke on Bhagavad-gītā and other, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla:I think they try to be impersonal.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. They are supposed to be great personalities, but not a single person was converted.
Indian man: (indistinct) There was some yogī (indistinct) Desai or something, (indistinct) he was asked who is spiritual master. He pointed out could not answer who can be spiritual master, and he posed himself as a spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: So here is an opportunity to preach real India's traditional culture. So those who are Indians present here, they should cooperate. They should not mislead persons.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: We have started teaching your Gītā at Georgetown University, where I teach. Before we had..., we have two years' course of Sanskrit, and we had some excerpts from Mahābhārata and some Pañca-tantra and so on, but there was no Gītā. So I decided, and we are using the entire Gītā for the second year. Your contributions just can't be duplicated.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: And same thing with Bhāgavatam. We all know what a great book that is, and what I really appreciate about the whole thing is, number one, that there are no misprints in the book. So that's a great delight. Especially, for people who do not know Sanskrit, for them, there's no difference between the wheat and the germ that comes with it. The translations are very accurate. So it's real scholarship there. And people who were not aware of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they know that if the intellect is so powerful, the spirit must be powerful too. Our library, of course, has several copies, and our bookstore has almost all the...
Prabhupāda: All over the world they have given standing order. (laughter)
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Of course, it's very attractive to look at, another thing, the colors. So it's a beauty sight. But for some people...
Prabhupāda: (aside:) In India, the list you have got? We have got standing order from all institution, universities, colleges, standing orders: "Send as soon as possible."
Devotee (2): The best thing is to distribute them everywhere.
Prabhupāda: In Germany, in Russia we have got orders. The Russian professors, they have given order.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Your interview with the Russian professor was really sublime. I read it. I gave it to them.
Prabhupāda: You were in Russia?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: No, I read in Bhavan's Journal, quoted from Bombay. I gave it to him.
Devotee (1): It was in the journal. Your article was in one of the Indian journals.
Prabhupāda: My talk with Professor Kotovsky?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Yes.
Devotee (1): Actually, other Indians also commented they appreciate it very much. 
Indian devotee: That was the first time I started association, then I came to realize, ah, my direction, I was fooling around with Vivekananda.
Prabhupāda: Now other professors you have to assure that higher appreciation. Any scholar will appreciate. Apart from religious point of view, from scholarly point of view, they like it.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: I think you should maybe some day in the future also put out a grammar, Sanskrit grammar, whether yourself you write or somebody who you trust.
Prabhupāda: Grammar?
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Grammar of Sanskrit language published by the Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: We have got grammar, Jīva Gosvāmī, Harināmāmṛta-vyakāraṇa.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Is it in English, available in translation?
Prabhupāda: No, not here.
Dr. Shaligram Shukla: Well, I mean for the foreigners.
Prabhupāda: But there is grammar. Harināmāmṛta, all examples, words are harināmāmṛta. Yes, these are the list of, apart from European, America. "Cc" means Caitanya-caritāmṛta, "SB" means Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, standing order.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In addition to other books also. This is within the last few months. They just started after our Māyāpur festival.
Devotee (3): In Europe, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's a very nice Hungarian boy, he's a translator. He doesn't know English expertly, but I kept talking to him, and he was working on translating...
Prabhupāda: How he'll translate?
Devotee (3): He's a Hungarian, and he knows Russian also.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but if he does not know English, how he can translate?
Devotee (3): He knows English quite fluently, but he feels not so expert in it. He's developing his expertise for English too. (break) (end)

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Lecture Excerpt -- London, July 25, 1976

2013-11-24T10:19:19Z

ArnabS: moved Lecture Excerpt -- London, July 25, 1976 to Lecture at 7 Bury Place (partially recorded) — July 25, 1976, London: Name changed in vedabase 2013

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Morning Walk -- July 19, 1976, New York

2013-11-24T10:13:36Z

ArnabS: moved Morning Walk -- July 19, 1976, New York to Room Conversation — July 19, 1976, New York: Renamed in vedabase 2013

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Room Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.

2013-11-24T09:48:03Z

ArnabS: moved Room Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C. to Room Conversation with Dr. Sharma -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.: Page renamed due to change in vedabase

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760706 - Conversation D - Washington D.C.

2013-11-23T17:03:14Z

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760701 - Conversation B - New Vrindaban, USA

2013-11-23T16:56:02Z

760420 - Conversation - Melbourne

2013-11-21T15:25:11Z

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760322 - Conversation in Bengali - Mayapur

2013-11-21T14:51:00Z

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760727 - Conversation Hindi - London

2013-11-21T11:51:56Z

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760724 - Conversation - London

2013-11-21T11:50:58Z

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760715 - Conversation - New York

2013-11-21T11:49:53Z

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760714 - Conversation - New York

2013-11-21T11:48:50Z

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760625 - Morning Walk - New Vrindaban, USA

2013-11-21T11:47:36Z

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760704 - Conversation B - Washington D.C.

2013-11-21T11:44:17Z

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760617 - Conversation A - Toronto

2013-11-21T11:33:16Z

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760531 - Conversation - Honolulu

2013-11-21T11:31:48Z

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760530 - Conversation - Honolulu

2013-11-21T11:29:02Z

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760524 - Conversation - Honolulu

2013-11-21T11:27:49Z

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760521 - Conversation - Honolulu

2013-11-21T11:26:48Z

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