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<div class="code">710815SB-LONDON - August 15, 1971 - 42:25 Minutes</div>


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'''Pradyumna:''' . . . ''evāya''. ''Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya''. (Prabhupāda and devotees repeat) (leads chanting of verse)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo''.

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ''
:''vedyaṁ vāstavam atra śivadaṁ tāpa-trayonmūlanam''
:''śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte kiṁ vā parair īśvaraḥ''
:''sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate 'tra kṛtibhiḥ śuśrūṣubhis tat-kṣaṇāt''
:([[SB 1.1.2|SB 1.1.2]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' You read the translation, no?

'''Pradyumna:''' Uh Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And purport?

'''Pradyumna:''' No. Purport: "Religion includes four primary subjects, namely pious activities, economic development, satisfaction of the senses and, finally, liberation from material bondage." ([[SB 1.1.2|SB 1.1.2]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' So the ultimate aim is liberation from this conditional life, bondage. We are conditioned in every way, we can experience. As soon as we are embodied with a material body, immediately we are conditioned.

Just like as soon as we enter in some state . . . just like we have come from India. I have come from India in your state. So I am immediately conditioned by the immigration department.

So this is the material world, this is the system. As soon as you enter a particular type of body you are conditioned. Just like while walking in the St. James Park the ducks and the swans, when they saw that we are coming near, they immediately dropped into the water. Because the duck is thinking that he's safe in the water. And if somebody snatches me to put me down in the water, then I shall protest.

He's also a living entity; I am also a living entity. I am afraid of being put into the water, and he is seeking shelter into the water. Water is the same. Why one is seeking shelter, and why one is afraid of? This is material world. Because I am conditioned in a separate body and the duck is conditioned in a separate body. The trees . . . some trees are going upwards, and some trees are going downwards. These are the conditions. ''Deha-yogena dehinām'' ([[SB 7.6.3|SB 7.6.3]]).

So we are being put into different conditions, under different types of body. So liberation means that one shall not be under any condition. Just like Kṛṣṇa: He is not under any condition. That is liberation. We can also, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we can also become without any condition. Just like Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni is traveling in the space because he's liberated soul. He's not conditioned. But because we are conditioned, we cannot travel in the space without the help of some machine or something else.

This conditional life is going on anywhere you go within this material world. There are innumerable universes, and each and every universe, there are innumerable planets of different climatic conditions. Just like we find the climatic condition in the moon is different from the climatic condition of this earth. The climatic condition of sun is different from the climatic condition in the earth or from the moon. Every, each and every planet, each and every universe is differently conditioned. That is the beauty of Kṛṣṇa's creation. ''Keśava tuwā jagat vicitra''. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, "Keśava, my dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, Your creation is so full of varieties." That's a fact.

But all these conditions are not very liking to us. We are trying to be liberated from all conditions. Therefore liberation is the ultimate goal. As it is here stated, "Religion includes four primary subjects, namely, pious activities, economic development, satisfaction of the senses and, finally, liberation from material bondage."

So the ultimate goal being liberation, we have to adjust things, targeting to that point. That is real human civilization. The Vedic civilization is based on this view, that all the conditioned souls, they have . . . why they have become conditioned? The reason is they revolted against Kṛṣṇa. They wanted to imitate Kṛṣṇa. That is the mentality everywhere. You know, everyone says: "Oh, I don't care for God. I don't care for anything. I am at liberty to do anything." Just the hippies, they say: "We don't care for anything, state laws or convention or police or anything." The idea is that everyone is wanting liberation, "Be high." Because that is our constitutional position. Liberation.

So everyone is trying to be liberated. So in the bodies lower than the human being, there is no question of liberation. There is no question. Out of the 8,400,000's of species of life, 8,000,000 and at least 300 species, ah, 3,000 species of life, there is no question of liberation. They must live under the conditions of material nature. ''Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ'' ([[BG 3.27 (1972)|BG 3.27]]). You have accepted this material body voluntarily for enjoying this material world.

You enjoy it to the fullest extent under the condition of stringent laws of material nature. Now, in the human form of life, civilized human form of life, your consciousness is now developed. There is a chance to understand why you are conditioned. You don't want condition; you want liberation. This question arises in the human form of life, not in the cat's life, dog's life. No.

So we should remember this is the difference between other bodies and this body. Here, we become awakened that, "Why I am conditioned?" Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he approached Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu . . . he was minister, great man, very opulent. So the first question was put before Lord Caitanya, ''ke āmi,' 'kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya'' ([[CC Madhya 20.102|CC Madhya 20.102]]): "My dear master, I have come to You to ask the first question, that 'What I am? Why I am conditioned to suffer three kinds of miserable condition of life always?' "

Why you are using this fan? Because I am conditioned, I cannot bear too much heat or too much cold. As soon as I go out in the park, I was covering. So these questions should arise that, "Why I am conditioned? Sometimes I am covering, sometimes I want fan."

So this is the actual human life, not that simply imitating the animals: how to eat, how to sleep, how to sex. No. ''Śāstra'' says that is already established. Don't worry. Just like the swans and the ducks in St. James. They don't worry, "Oh, what to eat?" But they're getting their eatables. They don't go to office, to factory. Even the swans and ducks, and what to speak of human being?

This is nature's study, that the swans and ducks, they are getting at home, they are getting their sex life. Immediately, everything is there. According to their standard, everything is there. ''Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya'', these are the four things required for this body. But even a small duck and swan, he has got everything ready there in St. James Park. He does not go to the Downing Street. So why don't you study?

So if a swan is provided with all the necessities of life, why I shall not be? I am so much developed human being. Why I am so much busy in economic development? This is called illusion. But one who is advanced in knowledge, he knows that, "If the swan is already provided with all the necessities of life, then I shall also be provided with all the necessities of life. There is no need of endeavoring for it." That is a fact. That is the fact.

:''tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido''
:''na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ''
:''tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ''
:''kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā''
:([[SB 1.5.18|SB 1.5.18]])

By the force of time, just in due course of time, everything, whatever you require, it will come. Just like I was talking to you that in my childhood we heard so much about London city. So I was desiring, "When I shall go to London?" Now, in due course of time, I am walking in London. So Kṛṣṇa has provided everything for you. Don't worry. Therefore our main business should be how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We should not bother about other things. ''Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca''. But the things are there.

So even these are the problems, therefore they must be based on religion. Religion means to become well-behaved, to abide . . . just like good citizen means well-behaved, to abide by the state laws. So first thing is religion, to learn how to become God conscious. This is the first business of human society. But they have rejected religion. They have become secular. Secular . . . what does it mean, "secular"? It means don't care for any kind of religion; just work very hard for economic development day and night. This is the modern civilization. No. That is misleading.

From the very beginning of life . . . just like Prahlāda Mahārāja advised, ''kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha'' ([[SB 7.6.1|SB 7.6.1]]). The boys . . . he was five-years-old boy. He said: "My dear . . ." He was preaching amongst his class friend. This is Vaiṣṇavism. Even a five . . . just like our Sarasvatī, Śyāmasundara's daughter. She also preaches. She goes sometimes, "Do you know what is Kṛṣṇa?" If somebody says: "No, I do not know"—"The Supreme Personality of Godhead." You see? This is natural. Simply one has to be given the chance.

Because this, I mean to say, small girl has got the chance to live amongst Kṛṣṇa conscious people from the very birth, she's developing that, "Oh, I shall also preach. I shall also preach." Developing. Similarly, advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness means you will be, I mean to say, pushed how to preach, how to preach. That is one of the signs. ''Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam''. If you have heard nicely about the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then you must . . . next stage is ''kīrtanam. Kīrtanam'' means preaching, chanting. ''Kīrtanam''. ''Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ'' ([[SB 7.5.23-24|SB 7.5.23]]).

So that is our main business from the very beginning of life. ''Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha'' ([[SB 7.6.1|SB 7.6.1]]). This human form of life is so rare, after many, many millions of birth, many, many millions of years rotating through different species of life, by the evolutionary process, we have come to this human form of life. In this life also, if you are simply engaged in the matter of eating sleeping, sense gratification and defending, then where is the advancement? No advancement.

So that inquiry should be there that, "What I am? What I am put into these tribulations of conditional life under the laws of nature?" Unless this question arises in one's mind, he's not a human being, he's animal. Just (like) Sanātana Gosvāmī went to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and although he was minister, very learned scholar, he said: "My dear Lord, people eulogize me as very big man, learned man, minister. But I know that I do not know what I am. This is my position." ''Grāmya-vyavahāre kaha ei paṇḍita'', ''tāi satya māni'' ([[CC Madhya 20.100|CC Madhya 20.100]]): "The people, the ordinary people, common people, they say that 'You are so great scholar, so rich man, minister.' They say like that. But I know that I am fool number one. I do not know what I am." This is the position.

So people should know . . . everyone should know what he is, what is his constitutional position, why he is under so many conditions of life, how to get liberation. These are the questions. These are called . . . these questions are called ''brahma-jijñāsā''. That is the beginning of ''Vedānta''. ''Vedānta''. ''Veda'' means knowledge; ''anta'' means end. So long we have acquired knowledge in so many departments, but that has become useless. Because either I am a great scientist or great botanist or great politician, I am conditioned by the laws of material nature. ''Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā'' ([[BG 7.14 (1972)|BG 7.14]]).

So you become Professor Einstein or Nelson or Clive or this or that, you are conditioned by material nature. You cannot overcome this. Everything will be finished. You may stand as a statue in the Trafalgar Square. Not he; it is a lump of matter. But nobody can say where Mr. Nelson has gone, where Mr. Clive has gone. Nobody can say. Finished. You see?

Therefore human civilization should be based on first of all religion, ''dharma''. And what is that ''dharma''? That I have several times explained. According to Prahlāda Mahārāja, ''dharmān bhāgavatān''. ''Dharma'' means God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is ''dharma''. That is religion. ''Dharmān bhāgavatān''. So from the very beginning, in school, in primary schools, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught. That is real civilization. Unfortunately, there is no such arrangement.

So you go to the authorities and the so-called authorities, rascals. Inform them that, "Take this education. Introduce in the schools, colleges. Then there will be peace and prosperity. Otherwise there will be hippies. That's all. You may have very big, big universities, educational system, but the production will be hopeless, confused hippies. That's all." From the very beginning, the whole system should be changed, rascal civilization.

Religion first. First religion, then pious activities. "I belong to this religion," but what is your activities? Now, "I'm debauch number one." You see? And the other day the boy was asking religion, blasphemy, but from his appearance it looked like he's debauch number one. You see? So they fight simply on false prestige of so-called religion. Religion means pious life. That is religion. No meat-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication—that is religion, religious life, pious life.

So in the human society the first thing is that there must be religion, and religion means pious life. Every religion . . . just like Christian religion teaches pious life: "Thou shall not kill." And I am killing twenty-four hours, and still, I am proud of becoming a Christian. Just see. So religion means pious life. And on pious life, you earn your livelihood. Although your livelihood is already fixed up, your provision for living condition is already fixed up, still, because you think that, "Without working, I cannot live nicely," all right, economic development. But because first of all your life is religious, because you are living pious, then you can earn your livelihood according to your different status.

The status is ''brahmin'', ''kṣatriya'', ''vaiśya'', ''śūdra''. In every human society these natural division of the society are already there. The intelligent class of men, they should study all the ''śāstras'', all these Vedic literatures, thoroughly, and they should advise the politicians, "My dear Mr. Minister, you get rule, make the rulings like this, on this principle." They will advise, the ''brahmins'', intelligent class of men. And the ''kṣatriyas'', they will administer and see that the people are executing actually religious life. That is the duty of the state.

The police is there not for harassing you if you take a twig from the tree and he'll come, "Why you have taken?" You have got that experience? Because they have no other business than trifle things, they are very busy, "Oh, come on with me," arrested. They have built up their empire by exploiting the whole world, and if somebody takes a twig from the St. James Park, he's arrested. You see? Because there is no religious life. Fools, rascals, they do not know how to rule over. On trifle things they will, "Come on." And when there is a pickpocket, they will go away. You ask police, they will pass by. You see?

So without religious life, so-called economic development, it means implication. He's becoming implicated.

:''sat-saṅga chāḍi' kainu asate vilāsa''
:''te-kāraṇe lāgila ye karma-bandha-phāṅsa''
:(Gaurā Pahū verse 3)

Why there should be thieves? If the society is based on religion, why there should be thieves? Why there should be rogues? There cannot be. Because they're not trained. The same boys and girls, European boys, American boys and girls . . . just think of your past life and now this life. Why there is difference? Because it is based on religion. Based on religion. Therefore religion, then economic development. ''Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ'' (Hitopadeśa). ''Ātma-dharma'' or ''bhāgavata-dharma''.

''Ātmānaṁ sarvato rakṣet''. The ''śāstra'' says to protect yourself, that is a . . . what is called? In English there is a proverb: "Self-preservation is the first law of nature"? What is that? So self means soul. Your soul may not fall down. That is your first business. ''Ātmā'', ''ātmā'' means soul, mind and the body. So we have taken body. Everyone is prepared . . . now people are not even anxious how to protect this body.

They violate so many laws of eating, sleeping, mating, and become diseased. Even they do not know how to protect this body, what to speak of the mind and the soul. They're so rascal. ''Ātmānaṁ sarvato rakṣet tato dharmaṁ tato dhanam''. That is the version in the Vedic literature that, "Try to protect yourself first, then ''dharma'', then your religious principle, then ''dhana'', then money." But at the present moment they don't care for the self; they don't care for religion. They want simply money.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not one-sided. It is not that people may think that they are sentimentalist and simply chanting and dancing. No. There is volumes of philosophy of life, from all angles of vision. ''Dharma'', ''artha'', ''kāma'', ''mokṣa'' ([[SB 4.8.41]], [[CC Adi 1.90]]). From the point of religion, from the point of economic development, from the point of sense gratification and from the point of ultimate liberation, go back to home, back to Godhead. It is so nice movement.

Unfortunately . . . of course, people are gradually trying to understand the gravity of this movement, but at least you should know the gravity of this movement. It is not ordinary movement. It is not a sentimental. It is most scientific, authorized movement, how to make people happy in this world and in the next. ''Dharma'', ''artha'', ''kāma'', ''mokṣa''. Because ultimately, he must have liberation. This is the chance.

Now, this liberation, there are different types of liberation, five kinds of liberation: ''sāyujya-mukti'', ''sārūpya-mukti'', ''sālokya-mukti'', ''sārṣṭi-mukti'' . . . hmm, ''sāyujya'', ''sārūpya'', ''sālokya'', ''sārṣṭi'', ''sāmīpya''. ''Mukti'', liberation. There are different kinds of liberation. The first liberation, as the ''jñānīs'' or the speculators want, it is another side of voidism, to merge into the existence of the Absolute. They don't want varieties.

Because they have got a very bad experience of the varieties in the material world, they, as soon as there is question of varieties, they become shuddered, "Oh, again varieties?" They do not know that there is blissful varieties in association with Kṛṣṇa. They cannot accommodate in their brain, on account of poor fund of knowledge. Therefore they want ''sāyujya-mukti'', to merge into the existence of the . . . to become one with the Supreme.

That is possible. You can have it. But if you lose your individuality, then you can get eternity, but you cannot get blissful life of knowledge, because you lose your individuality. So that is suicidal. But a living entity, being individual soul, he cannot remain in that impersonal state of life. Because the other two factors, namely acquire knowledge and acquire blissful life, is wanting there. It is simply negation of these material varieties. Or eternity only—''sat''. But there are two other parts, ''cit'' and ''ānanda''. That is absent there.

So because it is not fully realized, therefore such living entities who take ''sāyujya-mukti'', they again fall down in due course of time. Because he doesn't get in the ''sāyujya-mukti'' the other two parts, component parts of his life, blissfulness and knowledge, full knowledge.

:''Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ''
:''patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ''
:([[SB 10.2.32|SB 10.2.32]]).

The impersonalist Māyāvādīs, they undergo severe austerities, penances, and rise up to the Brahma effulgence, becomes merged into it, but again falls down. Just like the spark: it enters the flame of the fire, but there is again chance of falling down.

So ''sāyujya-mukti'' . . . ''sārūpya-mukti'', to have the . . . for Vaiṣṇavas, they don't accept this ''sāyujya-mukti'', to merge into the existence of the Lord. They accept ''sārūpya-mukti''. ''Sārūpya-mukti'' means to have the same features of the body like Viṣṇu. In Vaikuṇṭhalokas all the living entities, devotees, they have got four hands.

And only in Kṛṣṇaloka, Kṛṣṇa has got two hands and His devotees also have two hands. In other ''lokas'', Vaikuṇṭhalokas . . . there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, Nārāyaṇa is the predominating Deity, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. And those who enter such planets, they get the same bodily feature, exactly looking like Nārāyaṇa.

You have seen the picture of the Viṣṇudūtas who came to deliver Ajāmila. They were exactly looking like Nārāyaṇa. The same helmets, the same ornaments, exactly. You can understand. Just like your president or queen, if you are also dressed, you'll also look like queen. Or if you are dressed, you'll look like the president. But that does not mean you are president or you are queen, simply by dressing.

Similarly, although the devotees and the living entities, they get the same feature of the body just like Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu, they're not ''viṣṇu-tattva''. That is called ''sāyujya'', ''sārūpya''. Similarly, ''sālokya'', to live in the same planet. ''Sāmīpya'', to live nearby, near exactly with Nārāyaṇa. Just like we are living together, similarly, you can live with Nārāyaṇa, ''sāmīpya'', side by side. These are the different kinds of liberation.

So this liberation should be the ultimate goal of life, how to get this liberation, go back to home, back to Godhead. That should be our mission. Not for this so-called economic development. That is already fixed up. Just like . . . in our Kṛṣṇa Society we are not very much anxious for economic development or sense gratification. We are simply interested how to develop our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

But the economic question becomes automatically solved. It is not that we are serving, we have no sense gratification. The married couples are there. Nothing is prohibited, everything is there. But it is adjusted. Adjusted. Not like cats and dogs. It must be adjusted according to rules and regulations. That is required. That is religious life, that is pious life, and then you become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and ultimately you get liberation. Next, read.

'''Pradyumna:''' "Irreligious life is a barbarous condition."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Irreligious life is barbarous condition. That is not civilized life. There must be religion. And religion means to know God, that is religion.

Go on.

'''Pradyumna:''' "Indeed, human life begins when religion begins. Eating, sleeping, fearing and mating are the four principles of animal life. These are common both to animals and to human beings. But religion is the extra function of the human beings. Without religion, human life is no better than animal life. Therefore, in human societies there is some form of religion which aims at self-realization and which makes reference to man's eternal relationship with God."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now, at the present moment, religion is being sacrificed. So it is animal society. The other day, the gentleman was repeating, "Then we are animals." I said that: "You are not only animals. There are other animals. You are Western animals, there are Eastern animals." They're all animals! We can challenge any scientist, any philosopher. Because they're godless, there is no religion, they're all animals. This is our declaration: animals. We don't take as human being. They're simply animals. Let them prove that they are not animals. Let them come here and prove that they're not animals. Mmm.

'''Pradyumna:''' "In the lower stages of human civilization, there is always competition to lord it over the material nature . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. That is going on. The great two wars began from Europe simply on this basis, the German and Englishmen. The Englishmen, by their colonization, they made the whole world red in the map: Africa and Asia, India and America, Canada. And the Germans thought, "So this shopkeepers' nation . . ."

Hitler used to say "shopkeepers' nation." "How they have occupied the whole world, and we are so intelligent? We are manufacturing so many things. We have no market to sell." That is the cause of the two great wars. This is a fact. Anyone, any politician, any gentleman knows what was the cause. The cause was Germany is always envious of England. Why this enviousness? Because England wants to lord it over, send Lord Clive to India to exploit. And the German wants that "We have got so many things manufactured. We cannot sell."

That is the cause of war: lord it over. Everyone is trying to lord it over. The whole economic situation. Everyone is trying to become "the lord of all I survey." Yes. "In the lower stage of human civilization, there is always competition to lord it over the material nature . . ." That is the lowest stage of human civilization. But that is passing on as the highest stage of . . .

Anyone who has developed how to exploit the resources of nature, that nation is called to be very highly civilized, or advanced. But that is the lowest stage of civilization. Everyone is trying to make economic development by exploiting the world—digging the earth, the mines, the . . . this is lowest stage, just like animal civilization.

Next.

'''Pradyumna:''' "Driven by such consciousness, man turns to religion."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm? No, no.

'''Pradyumna:''' ". . . there is always competition to lord it over the material nature, or, in other words, there is a continuous rivalry to satisfy the senses."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. The basic principle is to satisfy the senses. Sense gratification is there. There must be. We have got senses; that must be satisfied. But that sense gratification should be based on religion. Religion. ''Dharma'', ''artha''. ''Artha''. The sense gratification means economic development.

Without economic development, we cannot enjoy our senses, but everything should be based on religion. That is human civilization. Without religion, simply gratifying the senses or so-called economic development, that is animal civilization.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)