View source for 740526 - Lecture SB 01.02.02 - Rome

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<div class="code">740526SB-ROME - May 26, 1974 - 40:05 Minutes</div>


<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1974/740526SB-ROME.mp3</mp3player>


'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is Dhanañjaya? Dhanañjaya?

'''Devotee:''' Dhanañjaya? He's going . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Devotee:''' He's not feeling very well.

'''Prabhupāda:''' hmm.

'''Nitāi:''' ''Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya.'' (devotees repeat) (leads chanting of verse, etc.)

:''sūta uvāca''
:''yaṁ pravrajantam anupetam apeta-kṛtyaṁ''
:''dvaipāyano viraha-kātara ājuhāva''
:''putreti tan-mayatayā taravo 'bhinedus''
:''taṁ sarva-bhūta-hṛdayaṁ munim ānato 'smi''
:([[SB 1.2.2|SB 1.2.2]])

(break)

Translation: "Śrīla Sūta Gosvāmī said: Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto that great sage Śukadeva Gosvāmī, who can enter the hearts of all. When he went away to take up the renounced order of life, ''sannyāsa'', leaving aside home without undergoing the sacred thread ceremony, his father, Vyāsadeva, cried out to him, 'O my son!' Indeed, only the trees echoed in response to the begrieved father."

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Yaṁ pravrajantam. Pravrajantam'' means to leave home in renounced order of life. That is called ''pravrajantam''. Therefore a ''sannyāsī'' is called ''parivrājakācārya''. A ''sannyāsī'' is supposed to be wandering without any shelter. That is called ''pravrajya''. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he remained sixteen years within the womb of his mother. He did not come out. He was hearing his father within the womb. So this is called ''paramahaṁsa''. So a ''paramahaṁsa'' does not require any reformatory process, because they are already reformed. ''Yaṁ pravrajantam anupetam. Anu. Ana'' means without. ''Upeta. Upeta'' means taking shelter of ''guru'' or being offered the sacred thread. ''Upanayan''. The sacred thread ceremony is called ''upanayan''. That means he did not undergo the regulative principles, because he was within the womb. Without any ''saṁskāra'', he was going immediately, taking birth. ''Dvaipāyano viraha-kātaraḥ''. The father certainly was expecting the son to remain at home. Every father expects. But he, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, immediately after his birth, he began to go away. He was simply just waiting, "When I shall be fit to immediately go out of home, I shall take my birth."

So father became very much afflicted on account of separation from the son. Therefore ''dvaipāyana'', means Vyāsadeva, ''viraha-kātara'', became very much aggrieved that, "This son was sixteen years within the womb, and as soon as he is born, he is going away." ''Viraha-kātara ājuhāva'': "My dear son, where you are going? Where you are going?" So he did not care for anyone's calling. He went on. ''Putreti'', "My dear son," ''tan-mayatayā'', being absorbed in the thought of ''putra. Taravaḥ abhinedus tam''. There was, what is called, echo from the trees. Just like he was asking, "My dear son, where you are going? Where you are going?" And there was echo in the forest, "Where you are going? Where you are going?" So ''taravaḥ abhineduḥ.''

So these are all adjectives of the Śukadeva Gosvāmī. So ''tam'', "That person, who was just followed by his father, and he did not reply, but the trees replied by echoing, so I am offering . . ." Śukadeva Gosvāmī was the spiritual master of Sūta Gosvāmī. Therefore before speaking anything . . . this is the etiquette, that one should offer his obeisances to the spiritual master. (reading) "The institution of ''varṇa'' and ''āśrama'' prescribes many regulative duties to be observed by the father." There are, ''daśa-vidhā-saṁskāra'', reformatory—how it is scientific, just to bring the born child to the standard of civilization. The cats and dogs, they also beget children on the street. A human being also does like that, like cats and dogs. Then how they can expect very intelligent children, advanced children? Therefore there is method, how to beget children. So before begetting children, there is ceremony, ''garbhādhāna-saṁskāra'', how to impregnate the wife. ''Garbhādhāna''. It is not sex enjoyment. Therefore in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' you will find this word ''dharma'' ''aviruddha-kāmaḥ aham asmi'' ([[BG 7.11 (1972)|BG 7.11]]). Where is that ''Bhagavad-gītā''? Find out ''dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi''.

'''Devotee:''' (aside) Do you know where it is?

'''Nitāi:''' Yeah, it's in the Seventh Chapter, about verse fourteen.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, why don't you consult the index? ''Dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi.''

'''Devotee:''' ''Dharma'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Dharmāviruddhaḥ''.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' ''Dharmāviruddha bhutesu''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, ''kāmo''. There is Seventh Chapter?

'''Devotee:''' Yes, Seventh Chapter.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In which Kṛṣṇa says: "Sex life which is not against the principles of ''dharma'', or the ''varṇāśrama'' principle, that is I am." Sex life also is Kṛṣṇa. Have you got it?

'''Nitāi:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So read it.

'''Nitāi:'''

:''balaṁ balavatāṁ cāhaṁ''
:''kāma-rāga-vivarjitam''
:''dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu''
:''kāmo 'smi bharatarṣabha''
:([[BG 7.11 (1972)|BG 7.11]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Dharmāviruddha''?

'''Nitāi:''' ''Dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Nitāi:''' ''Kāmo 'smi bharatarṣabha.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' Read the . . .

'''Nitāi:''' "I am the strength of the strong, devoid of passion and desire. I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles, O Lord of Bhāratas."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. This sex life, ''garbhādhāna-saṁskāra'' . . . this is called ''garbhādhāna-saṁskāra'', to just to beget first-class children, that kind of sex life, Kṛṣṇa says: "I am that sex life." This is ''saṁskāra''. So formerly, at least those who were on the higher status of the society, namely the ''brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya'' and ''vaiśyas'', they had to observe this ''garbhādhāna-saṁskāra''. It is not a secret thing. Because one is going to beget child, so the child must be worth, a human being. Therefore there is ''saṁ'' . . . first of all, the ''garbhādhāna-saṁskāra''. Then, when the wife is pregnant, there are other ''saṁskāras''. Then ''upanayana-saṁskāra, vivāha-saṁskāra'', up to the point of death. From before birth and up to the point of death, there are ''saṁskāra''.

''Asaṁskṛtāḥ kriyā-hīnā mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ'' ([[SB 12.1.39-40|SB 12.1.40]]). That is stated in the ''Śrīmad . . . asaṁskṛta.'' The present government men, they did not go any ''saṁskāra''. Formerly, the kings, they . . . the higher castes, never mind he is king or not, but higher caste . . . therefore they claimed higher. Not claimed; actually they were. The ''brāhmaṇas'' and the ''kṣatriyas'' especially, and also the ''vaiśyas'', they went the ''saṁskāra'', reformatory. Just like ''saṁskāra'' means educational process, to elevate one. Just like we send to school, college, for elevating a child to the higher standard of life, knowledge, similarly, these ''saṁskāras'' also like that. One must undergo the ''saṁskāras'', the reformatory method, and act in life. If I have taken the ''saṁskāra'' of ''brāhmaṇa'', if I have accepted the sacred thread, then I must act as a ''brāhmaṇa''. It is very practical. Just like if you have passed your examination as an engineer, then you must act as an engineer. Not that simply you have got the qualification of engineer, and now you are engaged in the business of a shopkeeper. No. You must act as engineer. That is qualification.

Similarly, ''cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ'' ([[BG 4.13 (1972)|BG 4.13]]). Kṛṣṇa says that, "This division, the social division—''brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra''—is made by Me according to quality and work." Not that simply work or simply quality. You must have the quality and work, both. Means you must be bona fide candidate to work for something. If you want to work as a ''brahmiṇ'', then you must have all . . . you must possess all the bona fide qualities of a ''brahmiṇ''. If you want to act as a ''kṣatriya'', then you must have all the ''kṣatriya'' qualities and act. The ''kṣatriya'' means they are especially the . . . ''yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam'' ([[BG 18.43 (1972)|BG 18.43]]). A ''kṣatriya'' is never afraid of fighting; neither, if somebody challenges, "I would fight with you. I want to fight with you," the ''kṣatriya'' will never deny. If somebody comes forward to a ''kṣatriya'' that, "I want to play chess or gamble . . ." Gambling was allowed to the ''kṣatriyas''. It is by gambling, all the Pāṇḍavas, they lost everything. The Kauravas, his brother, they made a trick to challenge—because a ''kṣatriya'' cannot deny—that, "We want to play games with you and betting." So they betted their kingdom, their wife and their everything. Then they were banished. There was a trick to make them humiliated in every respect. So ''kṣatriya'', because a ''kṣatriya'' cannot refuse, if any opposite party comes to a ''kṣatriya'' that, "I want to fight with you," a ''kṣatriya'' cannot deny. And that fighting would go up to the death, till it is decided. One must die.

Just like Jarāsandha—Jarāsandha and Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna and Bhīma. There was many times fight with Jarāsandha and Kṛṣṇa. But he brought many, many, unlimited number of soldiers, and they were killed. So this time Kṛṣṇa wanted to kill only Jarāsandha, not so many innocent soldiers. So therefore Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna and Bhīma went to Jarāsandha, and they went in the dress of ''brāhmaṇa''. So Jarāsandha was very charitable to the ''brāhmaṇas''. So when they . . . as ''brāhmaṇas'', they wanted something. "Yes, what do you want?" Then they said that, "We want to fight with you." So Jarāsandha could understand, "They are in disguise. They are ''kṣatriyas''." So Jarāsandha said: "Yes, accepted. Then who will fight with me? You are three." Then they challenged also, "Anyone. Anyone you can accept." So Jarāsandha said that, "Kṛṣṇa, He fled away." Kṛṣṇa is Rañcora. Sometimes He did that. The purpose was to save the innocent soldiers, and He would take another chance to kill Jarāsandha. But he thought that He fled away. Anyway, so he said that, "Kṛṣṇa is afraid of me. I cannot fight with Him. I reject Him. And Arjuna is younger than me; so I cannot fight with who is younger, inferior, to me. But I can accept Bhīma to fight with him."

So there was fight with Bhīma and Jarāsandha. This is ''kṣatriya'' spirit. He could not deny. They were guest, these three men, namely Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna . . . they were guest. So they would fight the whole day, or, say, in the morning, after taking their breakfast, they'd begin fighting. And the fighting will go on, and at night they are guest. They were received very well. They would dine together, talk together, friendly. You see? So this is ''kṣatriya'' spirit. And in this way, for twenty-seven or twenty-eight days, the fighting was going on. Later on, Jarāsandha was killed by the hint of Kṛṣṇa. This is ''kṣatriya'' spirit. Similarly, ''brāhmaṇa'' spirit. ''Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ'' ([[BG 4.13 (1972)|BG 4.13]]).

So Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he did not undergo any of these principles because he was ''paramahaṁsa'', above all these things. Therefore ''anupetam''. (reading purport) "The institution of ''varṇāśrama'' prescribed many regulative duties." ''Daśa-vidhā-saṁskāra'', ten kinds of reformatory methods. But he did not undergo. (reading purport) "Such duties enjoin that a candidate willing to study the ''Vedas'' must approach a bona fide spiritual master." If anyone wants to become a ''brāhmaṇa'', it is not that the ''brāhmaṇa's'' son would automatically become ''brāhmaṇa''. No. Anyone could become ''brāhmaṇa''. Just like ''Jābāla Upaniṣad'', Satyakāma Jābāla. This Satyakāma was the son of a prostitute. He was not a ''brahmiṇ's'' son. So he wanted to become ''brahmiṇ''. So he went to Gautama Muni, "Sir, please initiate me. I want to become a ''brāhmaṇa''." ''Śūdras'' are not initiated. In the formerly . . . ''śūdras'' are not . . . therefore Gautama Muni inquired that, "What you are? Because I do not initiate who is not born of a ''brahmiṇ'' father." So he said: "I do not know." "So go to your mother. Ask whose son you are." The mother said: "I do not know." So he came and he said that, "Sir, my mother does not know whose son I am." So Gautama Muni accepted him as disciple because he was truthful. He saw that he has got the brahminical qualification, truthful. Everyone is not willing that to admit that he is the son of a prostitute. No. But he admitted, "Yes, my mother does not know by whom I was begotten." So this is qualification.

So in the Kali-yuga especially, there is no Vedic system of reformatory processes. It is the ''pāñcarātriki-vidhi'', that anyone has got a little qualification for becoming ''brahmiṇ'', he is accepted by the spiritual master and is trained up, is initiated, just to make him a complete ''brahmiṇ''. (reading) So "The sacred thread is the sign of those who are competent to study the ''Vedas'' from ''ācārya'', or the bona fide spiritual master." The bona fide spiritual master is called ''ācārya'', or the ''ācārya'' can become a bona fide spiritual master. ''Ācārya'' means who knows the purport of the ''śāstra'', and he behaves himself according to the ''śāstric'' regulative principles and teaches his disciple in that way. He is called ''ācārya. Ācārya'' means whose behavior, whose activities should be followed. That is called ''ācārya''.

(reading) "Generally, man is born as ordinary being, and by the purificatory process, he is born for the second time." That is called ''dvija''. Even a man is born, so he is not accepted as human being. Because unless the purificatory process is there, he cannot be accepted as human being. Therefore unless in any society the ''varṇāśrama-dharma'' is not there, they are not human being. They are called animals or ''mlecchas, yavanas''. Civilized society means he must know, he must undergone the all the regulative principles. But at the present moment, in the ''Bhāgavata'' it is said, ''asaṁskṛta'': "Without any reformatory method." All these posts, government posts, are occupied by persons ''asaṁskṛtāḥ kriyā-hīnā mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ'' ([[SB 12.1.39-40|SB 12.1.40]]). So what will be their business? They do not know what is the responsibility of government. They do not know. Therefore the whole world is in chaos. They are neither themselves perfect gentlemen or perfect ''brāhmaṇa'' or ''kṣatriya''. They are also like animals, ''śūdras''. How they can rule over nicely? But formerly that was not. The ''brāhmaṇa'' and the ''kṣatriya'' especially, they must undergo the reformatory method.

So "Generally, a man is born as an ordinary being, and by the purificatory processes he is born for the second time." This is called ''dvija'', second time, by the spiritual master. "When he sees a new light and seeks direction for spiritual progress, he approaches spiritual master to instruct him in the ''Vedas''." This is our process. In the beginning we do not ask anybody to become initiated or a ''brahmiṇ''. No. We simply invite a person to join the chanting. This is our process. We should strictly follow this. In the beginning, we should not ask that, "You have to do this, you have to . . ." He cannot do that. That is not possible. But everyone should be given chance, because in the Kali-yuga there is no reformatory system. Everyone is born ''śūdra'' and less than that, ''caṇḍāla''. So they should not be neglected also. Not that, "Because all people are fallen—they are less than ''śūdras'' and ''caṇḍālas''—so neglect them. Let me chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." No. This is not.

The duty of Vaiṣṇava is to reclaim these fallen souls. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', ''māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ''. (aside) Find out this verse:

:''māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya''
:''ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ''
:''striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās''
:''te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim''
:([[BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]])

Kṛṣṇa says: "Anyone who comes under My shelter, never mind he is the lowest of the lowest, lowborn . . ." The ''striyo vaiśyāḥ'' . . . formerly, even the woman and the mercantile community and ''śūdras'', they were also considered as ''pāpa-yoni. Pāpa-yoni'' means whose brain is not very developed. That is ''pāpa-yoni''. Blunt-headed. What is that? 

'''Nitāi:'''

:''māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya''
:''ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ''
:''striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās''
:''te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim''
:([[BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]])

"O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth—woman, ''vaiśyas'', merchants, as well as ''śūdras'', workers—can approach the supreme destination."

'''Prabhupāda:''' So the supreme destination, back to Godhead, back to home, is for everyone. It is not that just . . . God . . . God means for everyone. God does not say: "Only the ''brahmiṇ'' class of men, please come here. Others all rejected." No. He is inviting everyone. Even the lowest of the lowest, low-born, ''pāpa-yonayaḥ'', women, ''śūdra'' or ''vaiśyas'', everyone.

Now, Kṛṣṇa says that, "Everyone has got the potency of coming to Me, go back to home, back to Godhead." That is admitted by Kṛṣṇa. Now, who will make them qualified to go back to home, back to Godhead? That is the Vaiṣṇava, those who are actually very sincere servant of Kṛṣṇa. It is their duty. Kṛṣṇa says that, "Everyone is competent to come to Me if he is following the rules and regulations." ''Vyapāśritya''. What is the meaning of ''vyapāśritya''?

'''Nitāi:''' "Particularly taking shelter."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, "Particularly." One should be willing to go back to home, back to Godhead and take shelter particularly, means his representative. Such person can be elevated. So it is not that . . . but unfortunately, in India, although ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is there, they neglect it. The so-called ''brahmiṇs'', so-called ''gosvāmīs'', so-called . . . they neglect this process. Just like in India, the Muhammadans, the Muhammadans who claim to be partitioned: Pakistan and Hindustan. There are number of Muhammadans, they protested that, "India is going to be independent, but we do not wish to participate with the Hindus. We must be separate." Why? Because they have got a bad experience that the Hindus did not treat them very well, did not . . . even ''śūdra''. In South India, it was the process, so bad process, if ''śūdra'' is passing on the street, he has to cry, "I am a ''śūdra'' passing on the street. Please close your door." The ''brahmiṇs'' would close the door so that they may not even see a ''śūdra'', then everything will be spoiled, their food grains and everything. They will close. You see. Now the result is that South India, the Communists. Communists means the so-called low-class people, ''śūdras'' and ''caṇḍālas'', they are now in majority. They have formed a government that on principle, as soon as some ''brahmiṇ'' comes for government service, he will reject. So the ''brahmiṇs'' are now hiding themselves, that he is ''brahmiṇ'', because he cannot get any job. (laughter) This is the position.

So this negligence, this is not Vedic culture. Because they neglected . . . these Muhammadans who came, who grown in India, they were not imported from Afghanistan or Turkey or any Muhammadan country. They were Indians. But they were not given any facility for spiritual culture. The ''brahmiṇs'' monopolized it. Although they would not do anything, they would all, degraded form. But still, they would keep these ''śūdras'' and the ''caṇḍālas'' downtrodden and ill-treated. So therefore, when Aurangzeb passed a law, Jizya tax . . . jizya tax means all the non-Muhammadans would pay a tax. So these low-class people were so neglected. They thought—it is natural—that, "Why should we pay this tax? We are not very much well treated by the Hindus. So what is the use of remain Hindu and pay the tax?" So the wholesale, this neglected class of men became Muhammadans. This is the history. Otherwise, these Muhammadan did not come from the Muhammadan country.

So in this way a community was formed, Muhammadan community, gradually. And this British government took advantage of this ill-feeling between Hindus and Muhammadans. And they wanted to rule over India. They felt that ill-feeling. There is a great history. They are very big politician. In this way, at last, Jinnah, he was bribed by the British government and all the Britishers that, "You take as much money as you like." Just like we are also sometimes alleged that, "These American boys are being bribed by the American government." Who was telling, that newspaper reporter?

'''Nitāi:''' Newspaper reporter.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. "The American boys being supported by the American government to become Vaiṣṇava." Just see how fools they are. And the American boys, they have given up their all American comforts, and they are after me. They are eating anything I give, or I don't give anything, they are suffering—they are still bribed. Just see. They have no common sense even. (laughs) So anyway, they think like that. So sometimes the politicians do that.

So in this way, later on . . . because the Britishers thought that, "India is going to be independent, that cannot be checked, so make them smaller, smaller, smaller." That is the European history. Yes, in . . . formerly, under Roman Empire, all the Europeans were one nation. Is it not? I think it was, under Roman Empire. But when the empire dismantled, they became different nations—Germany, English, French. I see the same culture, the same civilization all over Europe. How they became Germans and Englishmen and this, I do not know. Anyway, this is the policy of the politicians.

So because they were not given chance . . . our point is that Kṛṣṇa says everyone should be given chance how to come back to home, how to approach Kṛṣṇa. So whose duty it is? It is the duty of Kṛṣṇa's servant. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja said: "My Lord, I do not wish to go back to home, back to Godhead, alone. I want to take all of them who are godless, or not devotee. I want to take. Unless I educate them how to go back to home, back to . . . I alone am not prepared to . . ." This is Prahlāda. This is Vaiṣṇava. ''Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī kṛpāmbudhir yaḥ''. Vaiṣṇava means he is for himself he has no problem, but he is very, very, I mean, morose by seeing others in distressed condition without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava has no problem. He can sit down anywhere and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be supplied to him. Kṛṣṇa said, ''yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham'' ([[BG 9.22 (1972)|BG 9.22]]). There is no problem. But it is a Vaiṣṇava's business to execute the will of Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa says,

:''māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya''
:''ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ''
:''striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās''
:''te 'pi yānti . . .''
:([[BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]])

If everyone has got the potency to go back to home, back to Godhead, it is the duty of the Vaiṣṇava to educate the whole world how to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not . . . (break) (end)