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[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - USA, San Francisco]]
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<div class="code">750717MW-SAN FRANCISCO - July 17, 1975 - 37:41 Minutes</div>


<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1975/750717MW-SAN_FRANCISCO.mp3</mp3player>


'''Yadubara:''' . . . class by the inventor of the H-bomb, the hydrogen bomb, Dr. Teller.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He was inventor?

'''Yadubara:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So he taught you how to use?

'''Yadubara:''' What?

'''Prabhupāda:''' He taught you how to use H-bomb?

(laughter)

'''Yadubara:''' No, he wasn't teaching that. He was teaching some physics. He was not a very good teacher. There were 1500 pupils in the class, students, and we would never be able to see the teacher, so many students.

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' He recently retired, and he was lamenting how young people are shunning science now. Young people are not so interested in science. He was also very disappointed that the new scientists were not as well trained as the old scientists and did not have the same desire to serve science.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What they will do by serving science? The birth, death is already there. So they are becoming saner, that "What is the use of wasting time in this way? We cannot solve any problem." That is sense. They cannot solve any . . . He is still alive or died?

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' He's alive.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So ask him that "Find out some bomb that you will not die. Why don't you do that?" (laughter) Yes. "People are dying, and you have invented something to die very soon. So why don't you invent something that you will never die? Can you do that? Therefore we are no more interested in science. It is a waste of time." Tell him. You go your professor: "You are regretting that young men are no more interested. So this is our reason because, after all, we have to die. Everything will be finished. Then what is the use of studying? You have not improved anything. The animals have also two legs, and two, four legs. We have got also four legs, and where is the difference? You say, the Darwin's theory, from monkey, man has come, but you never shown us that a monkey has ever given birth to a man. So all this false propaganda, we are no more interested." (break)

'''Bahulāśva:''' . . .Los Angeles you told Svarūpa Dāmodara that in twenty-five more years science will be finished.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Science is already finished. He is regretting that no young man is interested. That means it is finished already. That's a fact. (break) . . .is finished, so-called religion is finished, so-called politics is finished—everything. ''Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā'' ([[SB 5.18.12|SB 5.18.12]]). Because they have finished God, everything will be finished. Zero, only zero.

'''Bahulāśva:''' The whole human civilization.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is civilization? (laughter) The mother is killing child—is that civilization? Where is civilization? Less than doggish civilization. Dog also do not do that. And they are claiming civilization, nonsense rascals. Mother is killing child, and is that civilization? Less than dogs and cats. The dogs and cats also do not kill their child. They try to protect. You know? The cats, they carry their cubs from one place to another so that the male cat may not kill. The tiger also do that. The tiger, they also give protection to the . . .

'''Brahmānanda:''' The rats, they sometimes do that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Everyone. Mother's affection is natural. Now the civilized mother is killing child. This is your civilization. This is your religion, this is your science, philosophy—everything. And for this, you have created so many big, big buildings to create some less than animals. Civilization is finished unless you take to Kṛṣṇa conscious. Now dictatorship is coming, politics. The dictator can arrest anyone without any trial and stop him. Even their own circle, the Communists . . . Nobody knows where is Khrushchev, Indira Gandhi is doing.

'''Brahmānanda:''' Even they arrest you for sleeping now.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. I have got enough place to sleep, and they will come, "You cannot sleep." What is this civilization?

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' Indira Gandhi, she is taking instruction from the Russians. They are encouraging her to do all of this.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Everything is finished. (break) . . . principle, ''strīṣu duṣṭāsu varṇa-saṅkaraḥ abhibavāt''.

'''Bahulāśva:''' You can go around this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' This inventor of the hydrogen bomb, he said he had no regrets about making the bomb. He had no regrets about his career whatsoever. And he felt that science was still the answer to man's problems. That's why he was lamenting so much that people were not interested anymore.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So what is the problem? Real problem is birth, death. So have you any proposal?

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' No, he has no proposal for those.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then what is this nonsense problem? So far eating, sleeping, even the birds and beasts, they have no problem. They are eating, sleeping. What is this problem in eating, sleeping and mating? There is no problem. Why you are creating problem? You are creating problem, rascal. There is no problem. Where is the . . . Out of 8,400,000 species, only men are 400,000. Eight million, they are all lower animals. Where is their problem? They have no population problem, they have no, what is called, food problem, no quarter problem. They do not go to office, they do not start factories. So where is their problem? Eight millions, they have no problem. And out of the 400,000, the so-called rascal civilized men, they have problems. Others, they have no problem. They don't require a scientist rascal like you. (laughter) This is the . . . Tell them like this. If you take vox populi, so out of eight million four hundred, eight millions do not require a rascal like you. And out of the so-called civilized men, a few only, they require your service. So what is the value of your service? Others, they have no problem. Do you think they have problem, the birds and beasts? They are very freely walking from one tree to another and eating. Whatever fruits are there, they are eating. And the, for mating, the female bird is always with him. Nature has given, when the birth is taken place, one male, one female—cats, dogs and birds. So there is no problem. Is there any problem?

'''Brahmānanda:''' No.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then why these rascals create problem? And become a big scientist and draw a good salary, fatty salary, that's all. (break) He has invented hydrogen bomb, but does it mean the war is taking place every day? Say, after twenty years, fifty years, war will, then his service will be appreciated, by the time he will die.

'''Brahmānanda:''' They have not used one of those bomb yet.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Brahmānanda:''' They have not used the hydrogen bomb yet.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Even there is use, so where the use? We require daily things. (break) . . .these fruit?

'''Dharmadhyksa:''' These are cones. This is a pine tree, and these are cones. What are cones used for?

'''Jayatīrtha:''' Seeds are in the pinecones. (break) . . .cone the trees come.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Let them produce one seed like that. Sow it, and a big tree will come out. Where is that scientist? Hmm? Millions of living beings are coming out. You are trying to kill them, and they are trying to manufacture living being in the laboratory, and take credit. Where is the credit to you? Already millions and trillions are daily coming. Befooling men. They are fools and befooling men, that's all. This is their business.

'''Bahulāśva:''' The cheaters and the cheated.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Cheaters and the cheated. That's all. (break) . . .meditating, what is that? Who was saying? Upendra? Where is Upendra?

'''Jayatīrtha:''' He hasn't come, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So meditation means "I am moving the earth, I am moving the sun . . ."

'''Jayatīrtha:''' From that Kuṇḍalinī book.

'''Brahmānanda:''' Oh, in that prayer he says, "I created God." That Yogi Bhajan. In his book he says that, that that is the meditation.

'''Prabhupāda:''' "I created God."

'''Brahmānanda:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And you were created by dog. (laughter)

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' That is a very big theory of the modern atheists, that God is simply the creation of man's imagination in order to fulfill certain psychological needs.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then what is the cause of creation?

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' Mother Nature.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So Mother Nature . . . Where is the father? (laughter) You rascal, without father, mother can give any birth?

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' Well, it's asexual. There's some animals . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. So animal is their father? Where is the father? It is all right, "Mother Nature," but everyone knows without father, mother is useless.

'''Jayatīrtha:''' It's a fact.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Is there any mother who can give birth without father? So where is the father, rascal? Ask them.

'''Bahulāśva:''' This way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Jayatīrtha:''' Sometimes they say that he is dead now. He is dead.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right. But you must know what is your father. A man's father is dead—that does not mean he can say that "I have taken my birth without father." That you cannot say. Father may be dead. That is . . . we shall discuss later on. First of all you have to accept that mother cannot give birth without father. Who is that father? (break)

'''Bahulāśva:''' . . .nature has generated everything on its own. Just like we say that Kṛṣṇa . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is that nature, generating everything? Where is that nature? Show me.

'''Kṛṣṇadāsa:''' They give the example of the corn. Corn doesn't have to have a . . . They say corn produces the seeds as well as the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then wherefrom the corn came?

'''Kṛṣṇadāsa:''' From itself. You see, they theorize that naturally . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Theorize, theorize. But we say corn is produced . . . When the seeds are thrown on the ground, then corns are produced. Wherefrom . . . The corn is not dropping from the sky.

'''Kṛṣṇadāsa:''' Originally, right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We have not seen the original.

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' Well, originally, they say, it was just some chance combination of atoms and molecules . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is . . . A chance means you are a rascal. Nothing takes place with chance. That is his rascaldom. Nothing takes place. The answer is in the ''Bhagavad . . . bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām'' ([[BG 7.10 (1972)|BG 7.10]]): "The original seed I am." The answer is there. ''Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām''. Challenge these rascals. They are cheating so many people.

'''Bahulāśva:''' Well, then they want to say that if nature can't be self-existing, how can God?

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right, nature is existing, but our proposition is that without father, how nature can give birth? If the woman is existing, the man must be existing. Just like in your country it is experienced that a girl has given birth to a child; nobody knows who is the father, but still, it is accepted that she was pregnanted by a man, that is . . . You cannot say. It may be missing, but you have to accept. Not that this girl is giving birth, child, without any union with a man. You cannot say that.

'''Bahulāśva:''' Sometimes they say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that these examples are only valid because we're people, and therefore we're . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you are people because you are nonsense. Say that "Because you are nonsense. Why do you say people? You do not have any common sense even, that a mother gives birth to a child without a father."

'''Kṛṣṇadāsa:''' Actually, Prabhupāda, just one month ago I read a book in Swedish, and they actually say there's three cases in Sweden where children were born without a father.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right, let him satisfy there. But we have no such experience. We cannot accept his theory. He may be a single man to believe that. But no sane man will believe that. But we have got this answer. Kṛṣṇa says, ''mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram'' ([[BG 9.10 (1972)|BG 9.10]]): "''Prakṛtiḥ'', nature, is working under My direction." In the ''Brahma-saṁhitā'': ''sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvana vibharti . . . bhuvanāni durgā, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi'' (Bs. 5.44). ''Icchānurūpam''. The nature is working under the direction of God, Govinda.

'''Bahulāśva:''' Now the scientists are studying the atom, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and they agree . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, first of all let us know what they have done. What science they have done? They are proposing all nonsense theories, that nature is producing. So even if you accept nature as supreme, then you are subordinate. You are not independent. You are under . . . That also I explained. ''Pṛakrteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra vimu'' . . . ([[BG 3.27 (1972)|BG 3.27]]). Why you are thinking independent? You are being carried away by the ear, pulling, "Come here." You are thinking there is no birth, but there is birth. Every moment you are having a new life, new birth, by the . . . You can say, "I will not become old man," but ''prakṛti'' will not allow you. You must become old man. You can say, "I will not die." You must die. So you are so dependent. Even if you accept only ''prakṛti'', no father, you are a fatherless child, that's all right, but even the mother . . . You have to accept the authority of the mother. Where is your independence? You are thinking foolishly.

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' But that is why they are engaged in science, in order to master nature. They realize they are dependent.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is another foolishness. That is another foolishness, and we fools shall be misled by these rascals. All future. "Yes, in future we shall do this. In future we shall do that." Post-dated check. "I give you millions of dollars by check." "It is six months after." "Yes, you take it." So who is the foolish man who will take, accept a post-dated check? A foolish man may be satisfied, "Now I have one million dollars." That is another thing.

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' Check comes back stamped "Insufficient Funds."

'''Prabhupāda:''' "No funds." (laughter)

'''Bahulāśva:''' "Account closed."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Devotee:''' They're always saying that the devotees are parasites. Everyone is always saying that the ''sādhus'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That we have already answered. Just the Rockefeller. He may be also called parasite.

'''Devotee:''' He is.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But he has got enough money to engage you to work for me. "You work; I enjoy." Devotees are so clever that you collect money . . . Just like our Kṛṣṇadāsa collected money by doing hard work and gave me a check. Why shall I work? (laughter) I am so intelligent, I have created an organization—check is coming without my work. So who is intelligent? Why shall I work?

'''Bahulāśva:''' Better to just chant and dance.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Bahulāśva:''' That is why they become mad, because they become envious that we are chanting and dancing; they are working very hard.

'''Kṛṣṇadāsa:''' They won't join.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, they asked in Los Angeles that "How is that? You do not work, and you are living so comfortably?" They are envious. And the greatest economist, Professor Marshall, he has said that if man gets money, automatically he will not work. That is the basic prin . . . Therefore they are creating daily new invention.

'''Brahmānanda:''' For more working.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hah. They are creating, yearly, motorcar to allure them to work and purchase. That is the economic . . . whole economic basis.

'''Dharmādhyakṣa:''' There's a case in Africa when the British took over Africa, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they had to charge the natives a tax, let's say fifty dollars a year, and they would work . . . To make fifty dollars a year they would . . . (break) . . .transcending dualities.

'''Prabhupāda:''' First-class men. Our definition of God is'', na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate'' (''Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad'' 6.8). "He has nothing to do." This is God''. Na tasya karyaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate'': "He has nothing to do." He is simply enjoying, dancing with the gopīs, that's all. Why He should go to work? Then what kind of God He is? ''Na tasya karyaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate''.

'''Devotee:''' But He also says in ''Gītā'' that He works too.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just to teach these rascals to work. Because here, without working, you cannot get your food. Therefore laziness condemned here in this material world. And in the spiritual world the Supreme Person is the most lazy person. (laughter)

'''Bahulāśva:''' Just like yesterday you told the reporters. When they asked why such a big cart, so you told them that God should have a big cart.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And where is this car? When God assumes the universal form, where is the car? You have no such car. So this car is the smallest car of all. He has got . . . When He showed His ''viśva-rūpa'' to Arjuna, so for that ''viśva-rūpa'' where is the car? You cannot do.

'''Devotee:''' When Kṛṣṇa is demonstrating work, He demonstrates in the form of Lord Viṣṇu, not in His pastimes in Vṛndāvana, but more in the form of Viṣṇu? Or how does He show?

'''Prabhupāda:''' In Vṛndāvana there is no work. Outside Vṛndāvana there is killing of the demons. When He came out of Vṛndāvana, He began His business by killing His uncle, that Kaṁsa. Then so many other demons came, one after another. He had to fight. Even He had to marry by fighting.

'''Bahulāśva:''' ''Kṣatriya'' marriage?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Devotee:''' Even ''rākṣasa'' marriage.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Kṣatriya'' marriage . . . Without fighting, there is no ''kṣatriya'' marriage. For one prince (princess), there were so many candidates. So they must fight between themselves and decide who is the hero. Then he will be allowed to marry. There was no such freedom, the princes(s) are loitering in the street, and you can take as many as you like.

'''Devotee:''' The price was blood, huh?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Devotee:''' Plenty blood.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is prince. They are not cheap, loitering street. Every father of the prince (princess) made some bet. Just like Arjuna got Draupadī. How difficult it was! There was a fish on the ceiling, and you cannot see in this way. You have to see . . . There is a water pot, and you have to pierce the eyes of the fish. Then you will get this prince(ss). So many failure. It is not so easy job, see the eyes from the shadow, and in this way you have to pierce. It is not so easy job.

'''Bahulāśva:''' You can go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So the Satyabhāmā's father, he made a bet that "I have got these bulls, one dozen bull, very strong. And the boy who will be able to break the horns of these bulls, I will offer my daughter to him." So whole world will fail. You see, it is not so easy job. But Kṛṣṇa did it. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not that husband that he would pick out some cheap girl and make her pregnant and go away. (laughter)

'''Citsukhānanda:''' I think this was the case with the Swedish book.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives, and each wife He gave big palaces made of marble, furniture ivory, and silk and gold, and then again He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand forms. Not that one wife is crying for sixteen thousand days. No. Ready . . . (indistinct) . . .. And that is Kṛṣṇa. That was also just to give them protection. When they were all kidnapped by Jarāsandha . . . No? Bhaumāsura. So when they were released, so asked them, "Go home." So in India, if a girl is kidnapped and she lives outside home for three days, nobody will marry her. That system is still now. So they said that "You are asking to go home, but we will not be accepted." "Then what do you want?" "Now You marry us." "All right, come on." (laughter) Wholesale, sixteen thousand wives. This is Kṛṣṇa. We are not captivated by Kṛṣṇa a Guru-ji Mahārāja. We know what is Kṛṣṇa. Then we accept He is God. He has proved Himself that He is God. Our Kṛṣṇa is not going to marry a society girl secretary. He is not so cheap.

'''Devotee:''' This Guru Maharaj-ji claims to be God, but he had to go to childbirth class to learn how to have one child.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You should not talk about him, these rascals. ''Na tasya kāryam kāraṇam ca vidyate, na tasya samaḥ adhikaś ca dṛśyate''. This is the definition of God, that He has nothing to do personally. When Kṛṣṇa kills the demons outside Vṛndāvana, He is not original Kṛṣṇa; He is Vāsudeva. ''Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]]). When Kṛṣṇa is acting universally, that is Vāsudeva. Original Kṛṣṇa is always in Vṛndāvana.

'''Jayatīrtha:''' If the original Kṛṣṇa is always in Vṛndāvana, then why do the gopīs and Rādhārāṇī feel separation from Him?

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is here, in this material world. In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa does not leave.

'''Jayatīrtha:''' Oh.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And even in the material world, Kṛṣṇa superficially has gone to Mathurā, but He has captured the heart of the gopīs. So He is not leaving. gopīs are enjoying Kṛṣṇa by separation. (pause) That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's feeling, how He is appreciating Kṛṣṇa by separation. (pause)

'''Bahulāśva:''' Out here on the campus, Śrīla Prabhupāda, different people come with little carts, and they sell food things.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Food?

'''Bahulāśva:''' Food. They get a permit. We were thinking to have a little cart and sell Bengali sweets.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Bengali sweet selling is not our business. We should not waste in that way. Our business is how to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. If we find such opportunity by selling Bengali sweets, then we can sell. Otherwise it is useless. You should always remember this. We are not for selling Bengali sweets or any such thing unless it is connected with preaching our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You should remember it.

'''Citsukhānanda:''' Bengali sweets means ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta'', different books of ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Yes. Our . . . what is his name?

'''Jayatīrtha:''' Citsukhānanda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. The boy who has taken ''sannyāsa'', bookseller?

'''Devotees:''' Tripurāri Mahārāja.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tripurāri. He does so. (chuckles) He will sell Bengali sweet, and he will say, "You will find the formula here." So that his main business is to sell the ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta''. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Devotees:''' All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda! ''Hari hari bol! Jaya'' Prabhupāda. (end)