View source for 771014 - Conversation C - Vrndavana

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-10 - Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 45.01 to 60.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">771014R3.VRN - October 14, 1977 - 51:19 Minutes</div>


<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/771014R3-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>


'''Pradyumna:''' 

:''tad-īkṣaṇotprema-rasāplutāśayā''
:''jātānurāgā gata-manyavo 'rbhakān''
:''uduhya dorbhiḥ parirabhya mūrdhani''
:''ghrāṇair avāpuḥ paramāṁ mudaṁ te''
:([[SB 10.13.33|SB 10.13.33]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' One line?

'''Pradyumna:''' Just read like this, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' One line.

'''Pradyumna:''' Ah, one line. ''Te'' (gopāḥ) ''tad-īkṣaṇotprema-rasāplutāśayāḥ'' (teṣāṁ sutānām īkṣaṇena udgataḥ yaḥ prema-rasaḥ tasmin āplutāḥ nimagnāḥ āśayāḥ yeṣāṁ te) ''jātānurāgāḥ'' (jātaḥ anurāgaḥ yeṣāṁ te) ''gata-manyavaḥ'' (gata-roṣāḥ) ''arbhakān'' (sutān) ''uduhya'' (utthāpya) ''dorbhiḥ'' (bāhubhiḥ) ''parirabhya'' (āliṅgya) ''mūrdhani'' (mastake) ''ghrāṇaiḥ paramāṁ mudam'' (atīva prītim) ''avāpuḥ'' (prāptāḥ).

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. So translation.

'''Pradyumna:''' <span style="color:#ec710e">Takhan gop gan, nija nija putra darsane sneha rase nimagna citta hoiya, tahader purber roso bhab dur hoilo, athatpara tahadigoke kradhe darun purbak bahu dvara alingan koriya maskagrane prama prti labh koriya chilen.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Then Gopagana feels very affectionate by seeing their own sons, and their sorrows have gone away. Then they hug them by spreading their arms and feel very blissful.)</span>

'''Prabhupāda:''' So the word meaning you'll be able to translate into English?

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then I can explain the translation.

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The . . . Kṛṣṇa has become everything. After Brahmā has stolen the original cowherds boys and cows and calves, Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself. So on account of Kṛṣṇa's expansion, the cowherdsmen got a special attraction. First of all they were angry. The cowherdsmen were on the top of the hill. They did not like to come down. But on account of Kṛṣṇa, the boys were very, very attracted, and they immediately come down with special affection. Is it explained?

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It will help? Eh?

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you can do that.

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes. We can do every verse like this, yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Little by little, few verses at a time throughout the day, the ''Bhāgavata'' will be completed.

'''Pradyumna:''' We can do as much as you were doing before. We can do.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. We shall see how much we can . . . so on the head, I cannot hear properly.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. I was thinking he could sit here on the bed, and I can sit on the other side with the tape, or I can sit here also, and tape everything carefully. So should he move over now?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Kīrtanānanda:''' You need a flashlight, Pradyumna?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. Here's a flashlight. Sit up on the bed.

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''tataḥ pravayaso gopās''
:''tokāśleṣa-sunirvṛtāḥ''
:''kṛcchrāc chanair apagatās''
:''tad-anusmṛty-udaśravaḥ''
:([[SB 10.13.34|SB 10.13.34]])

''Tataḥ'' (anantaram) ''pravayasaḥ gopāḥ'' (vṛddhāḥ gopa-janāḥ).

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Tataḥ'' (anantaram), you can translate? No, you can translate immediately, "Thereafter."

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes. ''Tataḥ''—thereafter; ''pravayasaḥ'' (vṛddhāḥ gopa-janāḥ)—the elderly cowherdsmen? ''Vṛddhāḥ gopaḥ''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Tokāśleṣa-sunirvṛtāḥ'' (putrā-liṅganena sukhitāḥ santaḥ)—by embracing their sons.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Putra-liṅganena sukhitāḥ santaḥ''—they became overjoyed, or happy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In the beginning they were angry that the cows were being attracted by the calves, but when they came down from up the hill, they were themselves attracted by their sons, and therefore they embraced.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Śanaiḥ'' (kramaśaḥ)—slowly; ''kṛcchrāt'' (kaṣṭena)—with difficulty. ''Kṛcchrāt'' (kaṣṭena)—with difficulty; ''apagatāḥ'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Śanaiḥ'' means "gradually."

'''Pradyumna:''' Gradually. They were old ones, old ''gopas''. ''Apagatāḥ'' (āliṅganāghrāṇādi-vyāpārān-nivṛtāḥ).

'''Prabhupāda:''' These are the symptoms of affection, to embrace son and smell head.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Tad anusmṛty udaśravaḥ'' (teṣāṁ sutānām anusmṛtyā anusmaraṇe udgacchanti aśrūṇi netra-jalāni yeṣāṁ te tādṛśāḥ jātāḥ). By the . . . ''teṣāṁ sutānām anusmṛtyā anusmaraṇe''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So translate.

'''Pradyumna:''' "By remembering their sons." ''Anantara vayaska gopa-gaṇa putrāliṅgane paramānanda lābha kariyā. Ati-kaṣṭe kramaśaḥ'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' You can translate into English?

'''Pradyumna:''' "Thereafter, the elderly cowherdsmen," ''putrāliṅgane paramānanda lābha kariyā'', "obtaining great bliss from embracing their sons . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Feeling.

'''Pradyumna:''' "Attained great feeling." ''Ati-kaṣṭe kramaśaḥ āliṅganādi vyāpāra haite nivṛta hailena''. "They ceased from the embracing of their sons gradually, with . . ." ''Ati-kaṣṭe''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' With great difficulty.

'''Pradyumna:''' ". . . with great difficulty. With reluctance." ''Takhana putra-smṛti-vaśataḥ tāṅhādera netra-jala udgata haite lāgila''. "And from remembering . . . on account of remembering their sons," ''putra-smṛti-vaśataḥ tāṅhādera netra-jala udgata'', "tears began to . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Roll down.

'''Pradyumna:''' ". . . roll down from their eyes."

'''Prabhupāda:''' In this way it can be done, and it will require a very good editing. Then it will be all right. And at the same time discussion of ''Bhāgavata'' will go on. Is that correct? What the editor said?

'''Pradyumna:''' What does the editor say? Is this all right?

'''Jayādvaita:''' Sure it's all right. This is good. This plan is good.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So let us do that. So each word you read very distinctly. It doesn't matter it takes time.

'''Jayādvaita:''' And Pradyumna, you can work ahead on this translation, so that it can be read . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Jayādvaita:''' Can you work ahead on translating, Pradyumna? So that can be done also, that as it's being read to you, the translation can already be done in advance by Pradyumna.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That's good.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Jayādvaita:''' The translation of the verses can be done in advance, so that as the Sanskrit is being read to you, the meanings can also be done immediately.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Is that all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Should I . . . one thing I can do. Since Arundhatī will be typing, I can sit here with the dictaphone rather than tape recorder. Then she can do just as she always did, typing off the dictaphone.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Is that all right? And if you want, that way we can play back also very easily.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Okay. I'll sit here personally whenever you do this and tape it on the dictaphone.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You all think, and as you . . . I'll hear and do the needful. Anyway, it will be discussion on ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I think that Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja was also in an invalid state when he completed ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta'', Śrīla Prabhupāda. He expressed throughout the book that sometimes it was very difficult, but on account of the Vaiṣṇavas' great desire to hear the glories of the Lord, he continued his work.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' And you compared yourself to him, also.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Kavi. Your Godbrothers always called you Kavi.

'''Kīrtanānanda:''' Kavirāja, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Let us try. ''Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt'' ([[BG 2.40 (1972)|BG 2.40]]). Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya'' Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So, read one after another. Slowly but surely. Next verse.

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''vrajasya rāmaḥ premardher''
:''vīkṣyautkaṇṭhyam anukṣaṇam''
:''mukta-staneṣv apatyeṣv apy''
:'''ahetu-vid acintayat''
:([[SB 10.13.35|SB 10.13.35]])

''Rāmaḥ'' (baladevaḥ) . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Mukta-staneṣu'' (vayasa ādhikyāt stanyapānād virateṣu) ''api apatyeṣu'' (vatseṣu) ''vrajasya'' (go-samūhasya) ''anukṣaṇam'' (nirantanam) ''premardheḥ'' (santati-sneha-samṛddheḥ) ''autkaṇṭhyam'' (ātiśayam) ''vīkṣya ahetuvit'' (tat-kāraṇam ajānan) ''acintayat'' (cintitavān). ''Baladeva tat-kāle vayasādhikya-vaśataḥ stanya-pāna virata vatsa-gaṇera prati dhenu-gaṇera etādṛśa nirantara sneha-samṛddhira ādhikya-darśane tāhāra kāraṇa jānite nā pāriyā ei-rūpa cintā karite lāgilena''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The calves were grown up, and still, the mother wanted to feed them. So Balarāma was a little surprised. So He wanted to inquire what is the reason from Kṛṣṇa.

'''Pradyumna:''' Next verse?

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is explained?

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The calves, they were beyond milking, so when the cows were so affectionate, He could not understand.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Viśvanātha explanation?

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes, a very big one, big explanation.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Read it. We shall try to . . .

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Premardher hetor autkaṇṭhyaṁ mukta-staneṣv api vatseṣu nava-prasūta-vatsatarīṇām api gavām ahetu-vit hetum ajānan acintayad iti''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You can translate?

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes. ''Premardher hetor autkaṇṭhyam'', "Such enthusiasm on a cause of love, such affection," ''mukta-staneṣv api vatseṣu'', "even among those ''vatsas'' who had given up milking . . . they were no longer milking them at their mother," ''nava-prasūta-vatsatarīṇām api gavām'', "and seeing that enthusiasm," I think, "even among cows who had newly given birth . . . they had given . . ." They had some older calves who had finished milking, and they had younger calves who had . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, still . . .

'''Pradyumna:''' But they showed still same enthusiasm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So Balarāma was surprised.

'''Pradyumna:''' Then there is a . . . he raises some questions. ''Etāvat kāleṣu prati-dinam eva go-dohanādi samayeṣu nava-prasūtān api vatsān vihāya prācīnān eva vatsān stanaṁ pāyayantīḥ'' (etc. to ''abhūt'').

'''Prabhupāda:''' The mothers were more anxious to feed the older calves, although the new calves were present, because the older calves were expansions of Kṛṣṇa. This was surprising.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Paśyato' pi to yoga-māyaiva''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, just explain it. These were happening by the ''yogamāyā's'' manipulation. It is not generally happening, but on account of ''yogamāyā'', it was so happening. Two ''māyās'' are working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa: the ''mahāmāyā'', this material world; and ''yogamāyā'', the spiritual world. So this uncommon thing was happening on account of ''yogamāyā's'' influence.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Tatra'' to ''abhūt''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So on account of activity of ''yogamāyā'', the day on which Brahmā stolen, and they could not understand how ''yogamāyā'' was working. Uncommon thing happening.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Kintu'' to ''nābhūt''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So ''yogamāyā'' was acting in such a way that even Balarāma could not understand.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Varṣa-paryantam'' to ''avasīyate''. End.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So as ''yogamāyā'' gradually withdrew her action, then others could understand, especially Balarāma, and inquired from Kṛṣṇa. And next?

'''Pradyumna:''' 

:''kim etad adbhutam iva''
:''vāsudeve 'khilātmani''
:''vrajasya sātmanas'' . . .
:([[SB 10.13.36|SB 10.13.36]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' One thing, you can keep open my Tenth Canto, Kṛṣṇa.

'''Jayādvaita:''' ''Kṛṣṇa'' book, Tenth Canto.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That will help.

'''Jayādvaita:''' ''Kṛṣṇa'' book. Thirteenth or Fourteenth Chapter, Volume One. (indistinct background comments)

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''kim etad adbhutam iva''
:''vāsudeve 'khilātmani''
:''vrajasya sātmanas tokeṣv''
:''apūrvaṁ prema vardhat''
:([[SB 10.13.36|SB 10.13.36]])

(Sātmanaḥ synonyms to śrī-kṛṣṇe iva)

'''Prabhupāda:''' The affection was increasing not to ''māyā'', but because Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself as everything. So their whole life was meant for Kṛṣṇa. So on account of Kṛṣṇa affection, the affection of the older calves were more than the new calves. What is written in the English Kṛṣṇa?

'''Jayādvaita:''' Kṛṣṇa? "One day when Kṛṣṇa, along with Balarāma, was maintaining the calves in the forest . . ." 

'''Pradyumna:''' It's just up here. (Pradymuna points out where section begins) 

'''Jayādvaita:''' "Balarāma was astonished to see all the residents of Vṛndāvana so affectionate for their own children . . ." Is that  right? Yes, this is all right. ". . . exactly as they had been for Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, the cows had grown affectionate for their calves as much as for Kṛṣṇa. Balarāma therefore concluded that the extraordinary show of affection was something mystical, either performed by the demigods or by some powerful man."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Is it clear now? Balarāma was surprised to see the action of yogamāyā; therefore He inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "What is happening in this scene? What is that mystery?" Is it clear?

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In this way go very slow, but the discussion may be complete. So? You can go on.

'''Pradyumna:''' The next verse?

:''keyaṁ vā kuta āyātā''
:''daivī vā nāry utāsurī''
:''prāyo māyāstu me bhartur''
:''nānyā me 'pi vimohinī''
:([[SB 10.13.37|SB 10.13.37]])

(Sanskrit—''iyam to na bhavati'')

'''Prabhupāda:''' Balarāma was surprised, "This ''māyā'' may be some ''rākṣasī-māyā''. But how ''rākṣasī-māyā'' can influence upon Balarāma? That is not possible. Therefore it must be the ''māyā'' of Kṛṣṇa." Therefore He inquired. What is there in the English?

'''Jayādvaita:''' (reading from ''Kṛṣṇa'' book) "Balarāma inquired from Kṛṣṇa about the actual situation. He said, 'My dear Kṛṣṇa, in the beginning I thought that all these cows, calves and cowherd boys were either great sages and saintly persons or demigods. But at the present it appears that they are actually Your expansions. They are all You. You Yourself are playing as the calves and cows and boys.' " 

'''Pradyumna:''' This is later

'''Jayādvaita:''' This is later? Before that, "Balarāma had concluded that the extraordinary show of affection was something mystical, either performed by the demigods or some powerful man. Otherwise how could this wonderful change take place? He concluded that this mystical change must have been caused by Kṛṣṇa, whom Balarāma considered His worshipable Personality of Godhead. He thought, 'It was arranged by Kṛṣṇa, and even I could not check its mystic power.' Thus Balarāma understood that all those boys and calves were only expansions of Kṛṣṇa."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Is it now clear?

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Next verse. ''Iti sañcintya dāśārhaḥ'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Iti''—thus; ''sañcintya''—thinking.

'''Pradyumna:''' "Thinking thus," ''dāśārhaḥ''. ''Dāśārhaḥ'' (rāmaḥ)—"Balarāma."

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Dāśārhaḥ''.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Dāśārhaḥ''. ''Vatsān sa-vayasān api, sarvān ācaṣṭa vaikuṇṭhaṁ cakṣuṣā vayunena saḥ''. (Sanskrit—''saḥ'' to ''sa-vayasān'')

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Jñāna-cakṣuṣā'' is . . .? Try to give English.

'''Pradyumna:''' Er, er, "Then Lord Balarāma, thinking in this way," ''iti sañcintya, vayunena cakṣuṣā'', "with the eye of knowledge"?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Transcendental knowledge.

'''Pradyumna:''' ". . . with the eye of transcendental knowledge." ''Sarvān sa-vayasān'' (sahacarān) ''vatsān'' (gośāvakān) ''api vaikuṇṭham'' (śrī-kṛṣṇam eva) ''ācaṣṭa'' (apaśyat): "He saw all those calves as Śrī Kṛṣṇa only." ''Vaikuṇṭhaṁ śrī-kṛṣṇam eva apaśyat'': "He saw that all those calves were Kṛṣṇa."

'''Prabhupāda:''' You can clear my eyes with some hot water.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Get some hot water.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We're just getting some warm water, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Make it clear. (devotees play tape back for a few seconds)

'''Pradyumna:''' "Balarāma, after thinking in this way, He could see that all the calves were actually expansions of Śrī Kṛṣṇa."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Baladeva ei-rūpa cintā kariyā jñāna-cakṣu-dvārā dekhite pāilena ye samasta'' (etc. to ''pāiteche'')

'''Prabhupāda:''' Can you translate?

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Do it.

'''Pradyumna:''' "Thinking in this way, He was  able to see with the eye of transcendental knowledge that all these cows and calves were expansions in the form of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, these calves." (Sanskrit) "These calves, along with the cowherd boys," (Sanskrit) "were Śrī Kṛṣṇa, expansions of Śrī Kṛṣṇa."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then?

'''Pradyumna:''' Then,

:''naite sureśā ṛṣayo na caite''
:''tvam eva bhāsīśa bhid-āśraye 'pi''
:''sarvaṁ pṛthak tvaṁ nigamāt kathaṁ''
:''vadety'' . . .
:([[SB 10.13.39|SB 10.13.39]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' Try to . . .

'''Pradyumna:''' Translate as I . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Word to word.

'''Pradyumna:''' Yes, (he) ''īśa''—O Lord (he prabho kṛṣṇa)—O Lord Kṛṣṇa; ''ete sureśāḥ'' (gopālaka-rūpa-dharāḥ deva-śreṣṭhāḥ garuḍādayaḥ iti . . . to jnatam)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Word to word. Why you go?

'''Pradyumna:''' He says: "All these lords of the demigods . . ." He says that, "The cowherd boys are actually the best of the demigods in the form of cowherd boys." ''Ete sureśāḥ''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. They were all expansion of Kṛṣṇa.

'''Pradyumna:''' Oh. (Sanskrit—''iti to jñātam'') "As was formerly understood by Me." He formerly understood that these were all like demigods.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. No, Baladeva could understand before asking.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Na'' (idānīṁ tathā na paśyāmi). "I do not see it now. Now I do not see it in the same way. I do not see in such a way now." ''Ete vā ṛṣayaḥ na'': "These are not ''ṛṣis'' also." (break)

'''Jayādvaita:''' This ''Bhāgavatam'' commenting has attracted more men to come here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. That's all.

'''Kīrtanānanda:''' Would you like a little water, Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Now you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa little. (''kīrtana'') (end)